science vs religion - what does it take?

[groves200]

It was just randomly on my mind, what would it take (in your own opinion) to flat out disprove science and prove that god did create everything we see? and vice versa?

I see that science is moving forward in to finding answers while religion is settling on mostly faith alone and as much sophisticated science is today we still can't prove who is right. Do you think we will ever have an answer? what if we do prove without any doubt that for example the big bang theory is correct, would the religious still be religious? and vice versa... how would YOU be proven wrong? also, has science ever proven anything religious to be incorrect with no doubt? and have the religious corrected the bible for it? I don't know so I'm asking.. oh, that also works both ways, has the bible ever proven anything in science to be wrong?


by proof, i don't mean 'because it said so in the book'

ps: doesn't the bible also count as being a theory?

 

[George-ananda]

I think the whole idea of 'Science VERSUS Religion' is wrong. I am for 'Science AND Religion'. They're both trying to understand truth from different perspectives. Science is about how things work. Religion is about what does all this mean to humans and how should we live under that understanding.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think the whole idea of 'Science VERSUS Religion' is wrong. I am for 'Science AND Religion'. They're both trying to understand truth from different perspectives. Science is about how things work. Religion is about what does all this mean to humans and how should we live under that understanding.

Regardless, religions continue to make claims about how things work. I'll let you be the one to tell them they should stop.

 

[Skwim]

It was just randomly on my mind, what would it take (in your own opinion) to flat out disprove science and prove that god did create everything we see? and vice versa?

There is no "proving" or disproving science. Science is an enterprise that seeks to explain how things work. Religion is an enterprise that sometimes tells us how things work.

I see that science is moving forward in to finding answers while religion is settling on mostly faith alone and as much sophisticated science is today we still can't prove who is right.

Not sure what you mean by "right," but unlike religion, science employs its "wrongs" to advance itself, whereas religion brooks no "wrongs." So, science need not always be right whereas religion does.

Do you think we will ever have an answer?

As you may surmise from my replies above, I think you're asking the wrong question.

what if we do prove without any doubt that for example the big bang theory is correct, would the religious still be religious? and vice versa... how would YOU be proven wrong?

For the most part, religion often works its way around the more troubling conclusions of science by either remaining silent (ignoring them), adapting its theology so as to incorporate them, or, as we often see with creationists, dismissing them with fallacious arguments.

, has science ever proven anything religious to be incorrect with no doubt?

Just to get this out of the way, proof is only relevant to mathematics, logic, and alcohol. Science explains, not proves. But taking the gist of your question, science has indeed given lie to various religious claims. Evolution is a far more robust explanation for the diversity of life than is Christian creationism. And the purported age of the earth as held by fundamentalist Christians has been shown to be a fiction, as has Noah's world wide flood.

and have the religious corrected the bible for it?

No. reinterpretation is as far as any have gone.

has the bible ever proven anything in science to be wrong?

No.

ps: doesn't the bible also count as being a theory?

No. The United States National Academy of Sciences defines scientific theories as follows:

"It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence."
​

The American Association for the Advancement of Science says:

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.
Source: Wikipedia.

​

So, because the Bible didn't arise from any of these efforts it fails to be a theory

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It was just randomly on my mind, what would it take (in your own opinion) to flat out disprove science and prove that god did create everything we see?

I assume either an impairment of my cognitive/neurological functions or some type of mental/emotional breakdown. Any way you slice it, in order to become a fantasy-prone individual it would require significant alteration of my brain structure and/or function, as I would essentially need to be a different person in order to believe that science had be "disproven," or that unevidenced super-beings actually exist.

 

[outhouse]

. Science is about how things work. Religion is about what does all this mean to humans and how should we live under that understanding.

Religion contradicts science, and holds knowledge and education back, as people place god in the gap of their knowledge.

Or lets say in your case, you do not look for a natural explanation, you try and fit the supernatural into natural explanations. So you have limited your actual knowledge intake, closing your mind to what is known.

 

[sun rise]

I think the whole idea of 'Science VERSUS Religion' is wrong. I am for 'Science AND Religion'. They're both trying to understand truth from different perspectives. Science is about how things work. Religion is about what does all this mean to humans and how should we live under that understanding.

I really agree with that.

 

[Skwim]

I think the whole idea of 'Science VERSUS Religion' is wrong.

But it remains a fact of life, at least in the form of religion v. science. While science has little concern for what religion has to say, many religious people take exception with the findings of science and will boldly oppose them: the " religion versus" part.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I really agree with that.

The vast majority of religions make claims about things within the scope of science. Do you agree that they're wrong to do so?

 

[Maldini]

ps: doesn't the bible also count as being a theory?

No. A scientific theory should be backed up by either experiments, calculations or observations that gives enough reason to scientists to call a suggestion a theory.

It's one of the worst vocabulary misuses of all time. Theory in general life means a mere opinion or a suspicion, but in science it's actually much more than that.

 

[George-ananda]

Regardless, religions continue to make claims about how things work. I'll let you be the one to tell them they should stop.

I think that aspect of narrow religion is overly focused on by the anti-religion folks. I'm not going to try to tell the narrow types to stop as for some it might damage their faith and happiness. If they're open to listening I would encourage them to take a broader view. I don't buy into exaggerated claims like creationists are going to damage our children by hijacking textbooks.

 

[George-ananda]

Religion contradicts science, and holds knowledge and education back, as people place god in the gap of their knowledge.

Or lets say in your case, you do not look for a natural explanation, you try and fit the supernatural into natural explanations. So you have limited your actual knowledge intake, closing your mind to what is known.

I've earned yet another Outhouse facepalm . Will I ever learn to correct my mythological, superstitious and unscientific thinking?? That 'closing my mind to what is known' as you stated must be where I start going wrong again and again.

 

[George-ananda]

But it remains a fact of life, at least in the form of religion v. science. While science has little concern for what religion has to say, many religious people take exception with the findings of science and will boldly oppose them: the " religion versus" part.

Again, it's this narrow aspect of religion that gets overly focused on. Is this narrow group not the shrinking marginalized group as modernity rolls in? Let the YEC die out with the generations.

 

[groves200]

There is no "proving" or disproving science. Science is an enterprise that seeks to explain how things work. Religion is an enterprise that sometimes tells us how things work.

Not sure what you mean by "right," but unlike religion, science employs its "wrongs" to advance itself, whereas religion brooks no "wrongs." So, science need not always be right whereas religion does.

As you may surmise from my replies above, I think you're asking the wrong question.

For the most part, religion often works its way around the more troubling conclusions of science by either remaining silent (ignoring them), adapting its theology so as to incorporate them, or, as we often see with creationists, dismissing them with fallacious arguments.

Just to get this out of the way, proof is only relevant to mathematics, logic, and alcohol. Science explains, not proves. But taking the gist of your question, science has indeed given lie to various religious claims. Evolution is a far more robust explanation for the diversity of life than is Christian creationism. And the purported age of the earth as held by fundamentalist Christians has been shown to be a fiction, as has Noah's world wide flood.

No. reinterpretation is as far as any have gone.

No.

No. The United States National Academy of Sciences defines scientific theories as follows:

"It refers to a comprehensive explanation of some aspect of nature that is supported by a vast body of evidence."
​

The American Association for the Advancement of Science says:

"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on a body of facts that have been repeatedly confirmed through observation and experiment.
Source: Wikipedia.

​

So, because the Bible didn't arise from any of these efforts it fails to be a theory

thanks that was a really good reply

 

[Sir Doom]

It was just randomly on my mind, what would it take (in your own opinion) to flat out disprove science and prove that god did create everything we see? and vice versa?

Disproving science would take a complete unraveling of all known physical properties of anything at all. The complete obliteration of reality. That's the only thing. Even if something like that happened, that wouldn't indicate that God was in charge.

Science is an extension of typical human perception. Its just a formal way of thinking that favors objectivity. You can't just toss that away, its part of your brain no matter what (barring severe mental conditions).

I see that science is moving forward in to finding answers while religion is settling on mostly faith alone and as much sophisticated science is today we still can't prove who is right.

Religious people who try to prove accepted science wrong should probably stop. Unless they are actual scientists themselves and actually have a legitimate competitive theory then they should just stop. You can't trump science without better science.

Do you think we will ever have an answer?

What was the question?

what if we do prove without any doubt that for example the big bang theory is correct, would the religious still be religious?

I don't believe God created the universe. Just life. So, that wouldn't do anything to my religion. Also... the Big Bang Theory is as proven as I'd ever expect it to be.

and vice versa... how would YOU be proven wrong?

If it turns out life was created by something that wasn't divine then I'd have no more meaningful gaps to stick God into. So, that would be it.

also, has science ever proven anything religious to be incorrect with no doubt?

Doubt is highly subjective. Each of us doubts different things for different reasons. But, yes. Lots and lots of things that various religions have said have been proven wrong scientifically. Very few religions have been abandoned because of this. I can't think of a single one, honestly.

and have the religious corrected the bible for it?

Yeah. But not everybody who follows the Bible would ever dream of that. Most wouldn't, I'd wager. Its not really necessary. Plus... lots of religions don't care about the Bible at all.

I don't know so I'm asking.. oh, that also works both ways, has the bible ever proven anything in science to be wrong?

Again, you can't trump science without better science. Proving anything in science wrong is an act of better science. The question makes no sense.

by proof, i don't mean 'because it said so in the book'

What do you mean, then? I can pretty much bet a vast majority of your scientific 'knowledge' was gleaned from books. Am I wrong?

ps: doesn't the bible also count as being a theory?

Not in and of itself, no. Its a book, clearly.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I see that science is moving forward in to finding answers ...

Science is moving forward to discerning relationships and processes. Whether is is finding answers depends very much on the set of questions posed, and science has been daily disciplined in constraining the questions.

 

[groves200]

What do you mean, then? I can pretty much bet a vast majority of your scientific 'knowledge' was gleaned from books. Am I wrong?

that's just being picky..
I don't believe that the sun is 91 million miles away from earth via faith. But if it was written in the bible then religious people would accept it as accurate because it ses so.. that's the difference.

 

[Sir Doom]

that's just being picky..
I don't believe that the sun is 91 million miles away from earth via faith. But if it was written in the bible then religious people would accept it as accurate because it ses so.. that's the difference.

First, you do need faith to believe something like that. Its not like you can measure. I'd be willing to bet you couldn't even rattle off how it is scientists determine how far the sun is from us without hitting Google. Nor is it important that you should. You should recognize the parallel, however.

Second, there are very few people who simply accept what is written in the Bible 'just because'. That's a ridiculous myth. Do you think they somehow detach their cognitive abilities when reading the Bible? They just have no comprehension whatsoever of what they are reading? It could as easily be gobbledegook and they'd believe it 'just because' ?

That's not how it works. Lots of things in the Bible hold true even in today's society. Don't you think that might have just a weeeeeee bit to do with why people put so much stock in it? Perhaps the reason the text has survived for thousands of years? Think about it. Is it really because so many people are just easy dupes? Or is it because its not all fairytale snakes and sky-magic, there's actual wisdom in there?

Or had that never occurred to you?

 

[Bunyip]

There should be no conflict between science and religion. If religious claims are true, the science will support them. It is only when religions make false claims that science counters them.

As it should.

 

[Thana]

It was just randomly on my mind, what would it take (in your own opinion) to flat out disprove science and prove that god did create everything we see? and vice versa?

Well, Science doesn't prove or disprove Creation. I don't need to disprove science, Because Science does not contradict my beliefs and most religious people are in the same boat as me.

what if we do prove without any doubt that for example the big bang theory is correct, would the religious still be religious? and vice versa... how would YOU be proven wrong?

Prove The Big Bang, Abiogenesis etc.
They don't conflict with most religions at all.

also, has science ever proven anything religious to be incorrect with no doubt? and have the religious corrected the bible for it? I don't know so I'm asking.. oh, that also works both ways, has the bible ever proven anything in science to be wrong?

Not really, no.
Science has never really stuck it to the bible, Neither has the bible really ever stuck it to science. But like I said, The two aren't at odds.

ps: doesn't the bible also count as being a theory?

No, but Creation is a theory.