Science VS. Religion

[Mr Cheese]

the thing is myth and legend are often the bunsen burner and the test tube of religion

with which we compose new compounds.....

as such your devaluation of said tools, so to speak, negates them entirely

it is as bad as a creationist dismissing carbon dating...

 

[Jose Fly]

I'm saying that we're incapable of not using philosophy. Your position that it's invalid may or may not be correct, but it's moot. It's like insisting that we should have thumbs on our feet. Maybe we should, but we don't, so why complain?

Well, keep in mind the original point of this topic was religion. And we can certainly live without religion. The fact that atheists exist demonstrates that.

 

[Storm]

Well, keep in mind the original point of this topic was religion. And we can certainly live without religion. The fact that atheists exist demonstrates that.

Yes, the op was about religion. Our conversation, however, has drifted a bit.

 

[Mr Cheese]

The questions, please answer which you can:
Scientists: what about religion and spirituality is difficult for you to accept as feasible or logical?
Religious/Spiritual: what about science is blind and deaf to what you consider your path or the "truth" as you understand?
Fusion-Science+R/S: how have you come to terms with the two and how does each support you on each relative path?
Is there a point where scientific reasoning goes beyond the subtle awareness needed to be r/s?
What point do many r/s beliefs about the universe become illogical/irrational to the scientist?

And just one point for some consideration if you haven't thought on it yet: The vocabulary of science and r/s are different, and I have seen too often one side or the other pegged as ignorant or treated without patience when they don't understand or grasp the concept or idea, so please practice patience with one another in the rise of counter opinions. Science and r/s can get along beautifully, just as the mind and heart can.

Obviously you need to re-read this

 

[painted wolf]

Animists do not worship animal spirits! Please try to get this strait.

We deal with the spirits but we do not worship them! They are guides, adversaries and unpredictable forces of the universe. We respect, fear and appreciate them...They are not worshiped.

Most Animistic faiths are monotheistic with a deity that is beyond the ability of humans to understand... which is why we deal with the other spirits.

Egyptians, Celts, Hindus have gods with animal-like physical characteristics.

They also have gods that are all human and other ancient cultures like the Sumerians, Babylonians, Minoans and on and on... all had fully human deities.
You have cherry picked the examples that support your point and ignored other contemporary cultures.

wa:do

 

[AxisMundi]

so the siberian use is incorrect?

I am well aware of what "shamanic people were and are"....

my argument is that you were stating that animals or the thigns that animals represented...
certain fishies beign wise amongst the celts for example... were the first types of shamanic worship
how do we know this? I would propose the land and the sky itself came first.....


I grew up in and around Glastonbury England, given that your "path" is of celtic reconstruction.....you may have heard of it...and may understand, that, well, I've sipped the cup..from the well..so to speak...

Your attempt at ancedotal evidence is hardly proof.

Cave paintings in Levaux, France and Australia quite clearly show what was worshipped, not to mention the discovery of a 70 thousand year old statue...

World's oldest religion discovered in Botswana – 70,000 year-old stone python | Jewish Palo Mayombe

You claim the sky and land were worshipped first, pelase submit proof.

once again, there is a reason why modern science is labelled modern science...

you can dance around it all you like

ancient science was not as divorced from "religion" as it is now...

Modern science as such is only a few centuries old.

I am well aware of ancient science....

The modern Scientific Method was indeed codified relatively recently in human history. This in no way demands that such principles were not used before this.

To date you ahve offered an example that fell flat it it's face.

I await a credible example from you.

 

[painted wolf]

Cave paintings in Levaux, France and Australia quite clearly show what was worshipped, not to mention the discovery of a 70 thousand year old statue..

You are seeing what you want to see...
Lascaux shows more signs of sympathetic magic than 'animal worship'.
The paintings of Australia illustrate stories and rights of passage.

and sometimes a statue is just a statue.... unless they also worshiped pregnant women? Which again disproves your point.

wa:do

 

[AxisMundi]

You are seeing what you want to see...
Lascaux shows more signs of sympathetic magic than 'animal worship'.
The paintings of Australia illustrate stories and rights of passage.

and sometimes a statue is just a statue.... unless they also worshiped pregnant women? Which again disproves your point.

wa:do

Please feel more than free to show where I claimed people worshipped animals.

And I would suggest you read up on the Austraian paintings some more.

And sometimes a statue represents a god.

 

[painted wolf]

I think you can easily see where you claim that animists worship animal spirits and had animal gods. We do not. Your argument rests solely on cherry picked and unsupportable guess work, that demonstrates profound conformation bias.

wa:do

 

[AxisMundi]

I think you can easily see where you claim that animists worship animal spirits and had animal gods. We do not. Your argument rests solely on cherry picked and unsupportable guess work, that demonstrates profound conformation bias.

wa:do

So now you're not going to bother to attempt to show where I stated animals were worshipped?

BTW, look up "Jaguar" in south american religious history for an example.

 

[william7]

Erich Fromm seems to clearly see the problem with man's use of science and technology. In his book The Revolution of Hope: Toward A Humanized Technology (1969), he points out that:

“In the search for scientific truth, man came across knowledge that he could use for the domination of nature. He had tremendous success. But in the one-sided emphasis on technique and material consumption, man lost touch with himself, with life. Having lost religious faith and the humanistic values bound up with it, he concentrated on technical and material values and lost the capacity for deep emotional experiences, for the joy and sadness that accompany them. The machine he built became so powerful that it developed its own program, which now determines man's own thinking.”

 

[footprints]

Please feel more than free to show where I claimed people worshipped animals.

And I would suggest you read up on the Austraian paintings some more.

And sometimes a statue represents a god.

Personally I would suggest on this matter you could learn a lot from Painted Wolf.

There are no Australian aboriginal paintings which depict a deity or anybody else that was worshipped. The Australian aboriginal do not have a deity, they have the Dreamtime. A time in life where it is alledged men and women walked the earth with spirits. From the Dreamtime, there were spiritual teachers, these teachers were never looked upon as anything other than teachers, they are of course, for very good reason, well respected and very well admired by the Australian aboriginal people.