SCOTUS Decision Nightmares

[Twilight Hue]

Well, would you rather die after a few breaths or before?
That’s essentially the choice the infant has in this specific scenario.
So if you wish to think on the behalf of this infant, which do you think is preferable?

The reality of Potter Syndrome is even if the infant survives (as there are various underlying issues that can cause this) they will likely have chronic renal failure and respiratory issues for life.
https://www.osmosis.org/answers/potter-syndrome
That’s how medical experts see it, as far as I’m aware.

Yea your probably right.

 

[Koldo]

I'm not sure I understand... are you saying that the baby would live if it was aborted?

Nope. But if you can choose a less traumatic way to deal with this situation, wouldn't you? How does it benefit anyone involved to force the pregnancy here?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure I understand... are you saying that the baby would live if it was aborted?

No, I'm pretty sure he's not and instead focusing on this inhumane trainwreck of a scenario that needlessly greatened suffering and how it's entirely the fault and responsibility of the Republicans.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm not sure I understand... are you saying that the baby would live if it was aborted?

(No that's why I stated I used click bait in my edit)

 

[Heyo]

I'm not sure I understand... are you saying that the baby would live if it was aborted?

1. Babies don't get aborted, fetuses do.
2. It would die either way, aborted or born. But the law forces the woman to carry a death bound fetus to term (or to 37th week). A cruel way to multiply suffering.

 

[Subduction Zone]

1. Babies don't get aborted, fetuses do.
2. It would die either way, aborted or born. But the law forces the woman to carry a death bound fetus to term (or to 37th week). A cruel way to multiply suffering.

And one thing that pro-life people never seem to realize is that fetuses are not conscious. Their brains are not fully functioning until they can breathe. The brain takes a lot of oxygen to work. Babies with potter syndrome only know pain. Pain of not being able to breathe, pain from border level blood poisoning if they do survive for any length of time do to undeveloped kidneys.

I had to Google search this and found that there has been one baby that survived Potter's syndrome. Her problem was found very early an ultrasound spotted the defect at only 10 weeks And this was almost 10 years ago Her mothers uterus was regularly injected with saline water to mimic amniotic fluid. that saved her lungs. Her kidneys still did not work so she was on dialysis until she was three years old when she received a kidney from her father:

Congresswoman's 'Miracle Baby' Gets a Kidney – from her Dad!


This has not been duplicated in other pregnancies. It seems that early detection is a must.

 

[sun rise]

I'm not sure I understand... are you saying that the baby would live if it was aborted?

The case was about a fetus which would not live under any circumstances.

 

[Kenny]

Yes... but the title says "SCOTUS

The case was about a fetus which would not live under any circumstances.

I wonder what is safer for mom?

Some of these risks include:

1. Heavy and Excessive Bleeding
Bleeding is part of the abortion process, however, excessive bleeding is cause for alarm as it can sometimes indicate hemorrhaging.

While hemorrhaging only happens in around 1% of abortions, the mortality rate is significant. Hemorrhaging can be caused by “atony, coagulopathy, and abnormal placentation, as well as by such procedure complications as perforation, cervical laceration and retained tissue.”

2. Developing Pelvic Inflammatory Disease
Women who are infected with chlamydia at the time of their abortions are 23% more likely to develop Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID), a condition with lasting consequences, including fertility issues, abscesses, and chronic pain.1

3. Long-Term Mental Health Struggles
For some women, the abortion process can be traumatic and may trigger mental health issues such as anxiety and depression.2 For those who come to regret their abortion and carry feelings of shame and guilt, there are post-abortion recovery and support groups available through many local pregnancy centers.

4. Future Ectopic Pregnancies and other Fertility Issues
The abortion process can result in infections, hemorrhaging, and scarring of internal organs, which can cause issues as women attempt to conceive and give birth later on in life.3

5. Life-Threatening Infections

In some instances, fetal tissue is left in the uterus, which is called an incomplete abortion. This can result in infections that can be life-threatening if left untreated.


I'm not sure of what "side-effects" there are in a natural birth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes... but the title says "SCOTUS


I wonder what is safer for mom?

Some of these risks include:

1. Heavy and Excessive Bleeding
Bleeding is part of the abortion process, however, excessive bleeding is cause for alarm as it can sometimes indicate hemorrhaging.

While hemorrhaging only happens in around 1% of abortions, the mortality rate is significant. Hemorrhaging can be caused by “atony, coagulopathy, and abnormal placentation, as well as by such procedure complications as perforation, cervical laceration and retained tissue.”

2. Developing Pelvic Inflammatory Disease
Women who are infected with chlamydia at the time of their abortions are 23% more likely to develop Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID), a condition with lasting consequences, including fertility issues, abscesses, and chronic pain.1

3. Long-Term Mental Health Struggles
For some women, the abortion process can be traumatic and may trigger mental health issues such as anxiety and depression.2 For those who come to regret their abortion and carry feelings of shame and guilt, there are post-abortion recovery and support groups available through many local pregnancy centers.

4. Future Ectopic Pregnancies and other Fertility Issues
The abortion process can result in infections, hemorrhaging, and scarring of internal organs, which can cause issues as women attempt to conceive and give birth later on in life.3

5. Life-Threatening Infections

In some instances, fetal tissue is left in the uterus, which is called an incomplete abortion. This can result in infections that can be life-threatening if left untreated.


I'm not sure of what "side-effects" there are in a natural birth.

Grasping at straws I see. All of those are far more likely when the fetus is brought to term. Just a little bit of rational thinking would lead you to that conclusion. You are now refuting yourself.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes... but the title says "SCOTUS


I wonder what is safer for mom?

Some of these risks include:

1. Heavy and Excessive Bleeding
Bleeding is part of the abortion process, however, excessive bleeding is cause for alarm as it can sometimes indicate hemorrhaging.

While hemorrhaging only happens in around 1% of abortions, the mortality rate is significant. Hemorrhaging can be caused by “atony, coagulopathy, and abnormal placentation, as well as by such procedure complications as perforation, cervical laceration and retained tissue.”

2. Developing Pelvic Inflammatory Disease
Women who are infected with chlamydia at the time of their abortions are 23% more likely to develop Pelvic Inflammatory Disease (PID), a condition with lasting consequences, including fertility issues, abscesses, and chronic pain.1

3. Long-Term Mental Health Struggles
For some women, the abortion process can be traumatic and may trigger mental health issues such as anxiety and depression.2 For those who come to regret their abortion and carry feelings of shame and guilt, there are post-abortion recovery and support groups available through many local pregnancy centers.

4. Future Ectopic Pregnancies and other Fertility Issues
The abortion process can result in infections, hemorrhaging, and scarring of internal organs, which can cause issues as women attempt to conceive and give birth later on in life.3

5. Life-Threatening Infections

In some instances, fetal tissue is left in the uterus, which is called an incomplete abortion. This can result in infections that can be life-threatening if left untreated.


I'm not sure of what "side-effects" there are in a natural birth.

You don’t know the side affects or potential adverse health effects of childbirth?

Potential postpartum medical issues include but are not limited to
Excessive bleeding, heart disease, stroke, blood clots on the heart, postpartum depression etc

Postpartum complications: What you need to know

Also I don’t know what to tell you, but childbirth itself as an act isn’t that easy. Likely a lot harder than the procedure of abortion. Like even if it’s surgical, I’d imagine they’d use morphine by default

Imagine going through hours upon hours of excruciating pain (contractions) and actually giving birth, which is not painless in the slightest, only to watch the infant die in agony after a couple of breaths.

I know which one I’d prefer. Honestly sounds absolutely cruel to all involved to force birth in this specific scenario. Medical ethics are a thing. Which is likely why the doctors in this scenario recommended abortion in the first place.
Sometimes an abortion is the more ethical option. That’s just reality. If the people opt not to abort, that should be their choice absolutely. Just to be clear. But the other alternative should be open as well

Also the US absolutely sucks in terms of mortality rates in childbirth in comparison to all the rest of the developed world. Even now
Maybe they should improve their pre and post natal care a bit, before trying to restrict other potential options. Because people do die through birth as well. Just saying
Health and Health Care for Women of Reproductive Age

 

[Kenny]

Grasping at straws I see. All of those are far more likely when the fetus is brought to term. Just a little bit of rational thinking would lead you to that conclusion. You are now refuting yourself.

supportive documentation please, not just your opinion

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure.

supportive documentation please, not just your opinion

Are you telling us that you know practically nothing about pregnancy? If you do I will gladly post them.

 

[Kenny]

Upon further investigation: I find that in either case, neither are dangerous
"After all, the chances of dying of either abortion or childbirth are so miniscule that no rational woman would make a decision for or against aborting based upon them. For example, a woman has as much chance of dying of abortion or childbirth as she has of being killed by lightning, perishing in an aircraft crash, or dying from a snake or insect bite."

 

[Subduction Zone]

Upon further investigation: I find that in either case, neither are dangerous
"After all, the chances of dying of either abortion or childbirth are so miniscule that no rational woman would make a decision for or against aborting based upon them. For example, a woman has as much chance of dying of abortion or childbirth as she has of being killed by lightning, perishing in an aircraft crash, or dying from a snake or insect bite."

This is half right. The mortality rate for the mother during child birth was 23.8 per 100,000 childbirths in 2020:

Maternal Mortality Rates in the United States, 2020

The rate for non-Hispanic black women was 55.3 per 100,000 childbirths, 2.9 times the rare for white non-Hispanic women.

For legal abortions the mortality rate is so low that I could not find anything.

 

[Kenny]

This is half right. The mortality rate for the mother during child birth was 23.8 per 100,000 childbirths in 2020:

Maternal Mortality Rates in the United States, 2020

The rate for non-Hispanic black women was 55.3 per 100,000 childbirths, 2.9 times the rare for white non-Hispanic women.

For legal abortions the mortality rate is so low that I could not find anything.

Sorry - don't believe in the site you referenced due to it's current history of misinformation. - Even logically your last sentence is wrong.

 

[Sand Dancer]

And one thing that pro-life people never seem to realize is that fetuses are not conscious. Their brains are not fully functioning until they can breathe. The brain takes a lot of oxygen to work. Babies with potter syndrome only know pain. Pain of not being able to breathe, pain from border level blood poisoning if they do survive for any length of time do to undeveloped kidneys.

I had to Google search this and found that there has been one baby that survived Potter's syndrome. Her problem was found very early an ultrasound spotted the defect at only 10 weeks And this was almost 10 years ago Her mothers uterus was regularly injected with saline water to mimic amniotic fluid. that saved her lungs. Her kidneys still did not work so she was on dialysis until she was three years old when she received a kidney from her father:

Congresswoman's 'Miracle Baby' Gets a Kidney – from her Dad!


This has not been duplicated in other pregnancies. It seems that early detection is a must.

And cheap insurances probably won't pay for early screening.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry - don't believe in the site you referenced due to it's current history of misinformation. - Even logically your last sentence is wrong.

Oh my! A conspiracy theorist too. Nor do you understand how to use logic. The gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And cheap insurances probably won't pay for early screening.

The so called prolife people also tend to be opposed to a single payer health system. The self contradictions never end.

 

[Revoltingest]

Even logically your last sentence is wrong.

There's nothing illogical about it.
It's an opinion about the mortality rate
based upon inability to find information.
He could be wrong, but it's not illogical.
BTW, his conclusion is correct.
Abortion-Related Mortality in the United States 1998–2010

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's nothing illogical about it.
It's an opinion about the mortality rate
based upon inability to find information.
He could be wrong, but it's not illogical.
BTW, his conclusion is correct.
Abortion-Related Mortality in the United States 1998–2010

Thank you for finding that. They had to do a twelve year study to get meaningful data. The rate appears to be too low for annual studies to have much meaning. It would have been nice if he admitted the obvious. In just about every category that he cited the odds are worse for pregnancy than abortion. He could not see it but he was actually making an argument for abortion.

Using the figures from the study you linked the odds from going full term with a pregnancy are third times worse than the odds of death from an abortion.