Seal of the Prophets - Does it mean Muhammad is the final Prophet?

[RESOLUTION]

Khatam an-Nabiyyin, usually translated as Seal of the Prophets, is a title used in the Quran to designate the Prophet Muhammad. Among Muslims, it is generally regarded to mean that Muhammad was the last of the prophets sent by God.

The title khatam an-nabiyyin or khatim an-nabiyyin, is applied to Muhammad in verse 33:40 of the Qur'an. The popular Yusaf Ali translation reads,

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
— The Qur'an – Chapter 33 Verse 40

Khatam an-Nabiyyin - Wikipedia

This is commonly understood that Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time despite eschatological beliefs in regards a future Madhi or Qa'im.

Mahdi - Wikipedia

One consequence of understanding Muhammad as being the final prophet, is that other religions such as the Baha'i Faith believe there can be prophets after Muhammad. Baha'is consider the forerunner of the Baha'i faith, the Bab and the founder of the Baha'i faith, Baha'u'llah to be Prophets who have a similar station. Many Muslims of course strongly disagree and will sometimes consider the Baha'i Faith an apostate religion. This has led to persecution of Baha'is in severalof Islamic countries including Iran.

Báb - Wikipedia

Bahá'u'lláh - Wikipedia

What I would like discussed in this thread is to hear from Muslims as to why this single verse in the Quran has come to be understood as Muhammad being the final Prophet of all time. It would also be useful for those who believe in Muhmmad but also a Prophet after Muhammad (eg Baha'is and Ahmadiyyas), why this verse doesn't mean the final Prophet for all time.

Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

Ahmadiyya - Wikipedia

If it doesn't mean Muhammad was the final Prophet for all time as believed by Muslims, what does it mean?

NB - Anyone who has something constructive to contribute is also welcome to post.

The bible tells us that the Prophets of God spoke by the power of the Holy Spirit. As the Holy Spirit is not a liar and does not tell lies then surely you know that the words of Mahomet were not the words of God? I understand why people would ask about whose prophet he is but the words of this man do not maintain the teachings of the truth prophets and he certainly does for fulfill the criteria as a descendant of Issac the son whom God made the promise too. I believe anything concerning the Mahomet is not acceptable because it falls outside the promised Son and Gods own choices.

 

[firedragon]

Actually it is crucial to the topic, as it is about if the Quran said Muhammad is the 'seal' or 'last' prophet...

The Quran does say that Muhammed is the last "Nabi".

 

[wizanda]

The Quran does say that Muhammed is the last "Nabi".

It says a 'Closure', which is a summary of the prophetic line, which we can show is then historically accurate by all the texts.

Claiming the 'last' literally makes Muhammad wrong, as Edgar Cayce clearly was a prophet, etc.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

It says a 'Closure', which is a summary of the prophetic line, which we can show is then historically accurate by all the texts.

Claiming the 'last' literally makes Muhammad wrong, as Edgar Cayce clearly was a prophet, etc.

In my opinion.

Okay. You believe Mr. Cayce was a prophet. Was he a Rasool or a Nabi (according to your belief)?

 

[ajay0]

Muslims consider Muhammad as the last prophet, the Ahmediyas consider Mirza Gulam Ahmed as the last prophet, the Bahais consider Bahaullah as a later prophet, and the Dharmic monotheistic sect Prajapita Brahmakumaris consider Brahma Baba (Dada Lekhraj) as the final prophet.

Differences of opinions can be there, but I would say it should not boil down to the point of conflict which is contrary to the teachings of all religions.

 

[wizanda]

You believe Mr. Cayce was a prophet.

I do not do beliefs where we can show evidence, Edgar's powers of healing were real, his prophetic utterances have already come true, his knowledge of the Essenes was in advanced of known manuscripts.

Was he a Rasool or a Nabi (according to your belief)?

According to Moses's standard:

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?” (22) When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken.The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.

He spoke about future events, which came true.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

According to Moses's standard:

Deuteronomy 18:21-22 You may say in your heart, “How shall we know the word which Yahweh has not spoken?” (22) When a prophet speaks in Yahweh’s name, if the thing doesn’t follow, nor happen, that is the thing which Yahweh has not spoken.The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.

He spoke about future events, which came true.

So you are claiming that Cayce was a Nabi as said in the Deuteronomy 18:22. It says verbatim the word "Nabi". This is your belief.

And you claim that Cayce being a Nabi, and Quran saying that Muhammed was the last Nabi makes the Quran 'wrong'.

Is that clear?

 

[wizanda]

And you claim that Cayce being a Nabi, and Quran saying that Muhammed was the last Nabi makes the Quran 'wrong'.

We can show from historical evidence that Edgar Cayce is a prophet by Moses's definition of what a prophet is.... Plus there have been loads more, that is just one very clear case by the way.

That people who claim it says 'Last' in the Quran, are then making it wrong; whereas when if it says a 'Closure' as a confirmation of what came before it, it is then in alignment with that prophets have continued globally.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

We can show from historical evidence that Edgar Cayce is a prophet by Moses's definition of what a prophet is.... Plus there have been loads more, that is just one very clear case by the way.

That people who claim it says 'Last' in the Quran, are then making it wrong; whereas when if it says a 'Closure' as a confirmation of what came before it, it is then in alignment with that prophets have continued globally.

In my opinion.

I am not asking if Cayce was a true prophet of God or not. I am clarifying your belief.

Again, you are claiming that Cayce was a Nabi as said in the Deuteronomy 18:22. It says verbatim the word "Nabi". This is your belief. (The Hebrew word the bible uses here in your quote for your standard is "Nabi")

And you claim that Cayce being a Nabi, and Quran saying that Muhammed was the last Nabi makes the Quran 'wrong'.

That people who claim it says 'Last' in the Quran, are then making it wrong; whereas when if it says a 'Closure' as a confirmation of what came before it, it is then in alignment with that prophets have continued globally.

The Quran definitely says that Muhammed is the last Nabi. It doesn't speak of any Kalpa or cycles or anything of the sort. So the Quran has to be wrong in order to make Cayce a Nabi.

 

[Wasp]

The bible tells us that the Prophets of God spoke by the power of the Holy Spirit. As the Holy Spirit is not a liar and does not tell lies then surely you know that the words of Mahomet were not the words of God? I understand why people would ask about whose prophet he is but the words of this man do not maintain the teachings of the truth prophets and he certainly does for fulfill the criteria as a descendant of Issac the son whom God made the promise too. I believe anything concerning the Mahomet is not acceptable because it falls outside the promised Son and Gods own choices.

I have so many questions, but it would be so off-topic.

 

[wizanda]

And you claim that Cayce being a Nabi, and Quran saying that Muhammed was the last Nabi makes the Quran 'wrong'.

The Quran says there are messengers after (7:35-36, 40:34-35), Yeshua said there would be many (Matthew 23:34); it is the faulty interpretations that would make the Quran wrong, and I do not agree with changing the word 'Closure' into being the word 'Last'.

Also a big problem is the faulty understanding by Muhammadans as they've not read all the other religious texts without distinction (2:285); thus they assume a Nabi has to come with a book, and a Rasul is someone who only relays a message...

Joseph was a prophet by definition of his abilities, yet is recorded as a messenger by Muhammad; it is later man-made traditions that have made Rasul and Nabi more specific.

It doesn't speak of any Kalpa or cycles or anything of the sort.

3:55 And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so I will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

We are in an Age of Ungodliness until the Messianic Age according to the Quran, where then Allah will remove the demons at Judgement Day, and then we come to an Age of Peace (Islam).

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

The Quran says there are messengers after (7:35-36, 40:34-35)

This speaks of Rasool, not Nabi. But the Bible verse you quoted speaks of a Nabi. Also the khathamul Nabi is again "Nabi". They are different. You should understand that. At least make an attempt.

Also a big problem is the faulty understanding by Muhammadans

Thats just a genetic fallacy you are creating.

Yeshua said there would be many (Matthew 23:34)

This is speaking about pharisees.

and I do not agree with changing the word 'Closure' into being the word 'Last'.

It doesn't say "closure". I dont know who invented that. It means end. Last. Like when you finish a book. Khathamul Quran. Understand the language. So you are wrong.

3:55 And when Allah said: O Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so I will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.

Doesn't speak of Muhammed or a coming Nabi.

We are in an Age of Ungodliness until the Messianic Age according to the Quran, where then Allah will remove the demons at Judgement Day, and then we come to an Age of Peace (Islam).

No. The Quranic is not speaking about a future Messianic age.

 

[wizanda]

Thats just a genetic fallacy you are creating.

It isn't a genetic fallacy...

Abraham, Moses, Yeshua, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Zoroaster, etc are Muslims; a Muhammadan is someone who follows just Muhammad.

This is speaking about pharisees.

It says about Yeshua sending many prophets after him; it doesn't only apply to Pharisees.

Doesn't speak of Muhammed or a coming Nabi.

Like I really am finding you have reading comprehension issues...

I just explained why I posted the verse after it, and you're generally going off on some weird argumentative tangent, and not actually paying attention to my contexts in the conversation.

Verse 3:55 states there is a time we are now in, before the Resurrection of the Dead, and then a new time after it.

If you read more religious texts, and actually understand the same narratives of the Resurrection of the Dead are recorded globally, you might get better at comprehending what the Quran is talking about.

It doesn't say "closure". I dont know who invented that.

Wherever you can envision the concept of a seal, it is always connected to the end or closure of something.

Closure is an optimum word for the specific understanding, if we accepted the prophets in the Bible, we'd know this already.

2:4 And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.

There is no end to prophets, else we'd defile the promise to Aaron, that God will always maintain prophets to his people.

The Quranic is not speaking about a future Messianic age.

14:48 On the day when the earth shall be changed into a different earth, and the heavens (as well), and they shall come forth before Allah, the One, the Supreme.

57:21 Race toward forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whose width is like the width of the heavens and earth, prepared for those who believed in Allah and His messengers. That is the bounty of Allah which He gives to whom He wills, and Allah is the possessor of great bounty.

These state there is a new earth, and kingdom, which is what the Messianic age in the Bible, Zoroastrian, Hindu, etc texts say.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

It isn't a genetic fallacy; Abraham, Moses, Yeshua, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Zoroaster, etc are Muslims, a Muhammadan is someone who follows just Muhammad.

You have to understand what a genetic fallacy is. Hmm. Alright. A genetic fallacy is when you judge what someone says based on who they are, not on the merits of what they say. So you are committing a genetic fallacy.

It says about Yeshua sending many prophets after him; it doesn't only apply to Pharisees.

Read some verses prior. Its addressed at the pharisees. And anyway, Jesus doesn't say "after him". You haven't read it properly. Read again. It says that all of this will happen in this generation.

Like I really am finding you have reading comprehension issues...

Ah. Muhammedan. Comprehension issues. Next what?

This is not about a Nabi.

Anyway. Ciao.

 

[firedragon]

Closure is an optimum word for the specific understanding

For people who cannot and never will even attempt to understand what the original language says, "closure" is an optimum word.

Somethings wrong somewhere.

Thus, have a great day.

 

[wizanda]

So you are committing a genetic fallacy.

I'm not talking about who someone's person is in the slightest, I'm saying by definition a Muslim is an ambassador for God; not some follower of a religion, who says things contrary to the message in all the world's religions as one.

I do not accept some of you as Muslims, as you reject the message ascribed in the Quran; yet follow Hadiths, and man-made traditions like many religious become, and most prophets warn will happen after them.

It says that all of this will happen in this generation.

If we look up what Yeshua states about this Generation in the Synoptic Gospels, and then what that was based on in the Tanakh, it is the 2nd Temple destruction, Diaspora, Armageddon, Judgement day comes in this Generation...

Then when we have a new earth, that is the next Generation or Age.

And anyway, Jesus doesn't say "after him".

Matthew 23:34 Greek Text Analysis

The Greek says 'Shall Kill' in a future context.

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

Closure is an optimum word for the specific understanding

You know what! Just out of curiosity can you show me a dictionary/lexicon source that says Khatham means closure and whatever you are thinking?

Let me give you the details so that you can find something.

1. The exact word in the Qur'anic verse in question 33:40 is Wakhathama. (Wa means "and". Khatham is the word in question)
2. The arabic letters are Kha, tha, meem. (Kha is the 7th letter in the alphabet. I just say this because its actually not a k sound. Its ha with phlegm.)

So can you?

 

[wizanda]

dictionary/lexicon source that says Khatham means closure

'Khatam' in Dictionaries and Usage

The Dictionary Meaning of Khatam – The Bahai Truth

In my opinion.

 

[firedragon]

'Khatam' in Dictionaries and Usage

The Dictionary Meaning of Khatam – The Bahai Truth

In my opinion.

That's not dictionary or a lexicon.

 

[Link]

Thanks. My purpose in starting this thread is to better understanding Islamic theology, not to justify the Baha’i perspective. To be clear though, Baha’is see Bab and the Madhi and Bahá’u’lláh as the Return of Christ. That raises many more questions as to Islamic eschatology and what if any claims conform to Islamic expectations. Feel free to comment and elaborate further. I’m here to learn. I grew up Christian and became a Baha’i as an adult many years ago. I’m intimately familiar with Christianity that I grew up with but living in the West have had limited exposure to Islam.

Well one thing to know is the Mahdi is clearly in Quran, but it's sorcery that makes people not see him in there and how he is described.

This is the first hint that the Mahdi is not the Bab or Baha'allah.