Searching for the real Jesus

[Bob L]

I don't exactly know where to put this, so this looks to be the place.

Recently i have been reading and studying up on the Roman Republic and Empire, attempting to find parallels with modern-day America, and lately my studies are taking a different direction, specifically an attempt to answer a question that has been nagging at me for a while now - at what point did Jesus become the Christ? When did he stop being a minor historical figure and become the leading figure of a worldwide belief system? How did this all come about? How did the Roman Empire figure in all this? I've been reading The Historical Figure of Jesus, by E.P. Sanders, so I can get a "lay of the land" of that time period, and I'm getting the impression that Jesus was little more than one of many itinerant preachers in Palestine, of which Rome was completely unconcerned with. But when and how did he become a mythological creature on a par with the Greek and Roman gods?

There's precious little information about Jesus from other sources other than the New Testament, mostly a one-paragraph mention of him from the Jewish historian Josephus. The Gospels were written years after the fact with oral knowledge handed down God-knows how many times, so it would be hard to consider them completely credible. So I'm thinking much more study is in order here, perhaps for the rest of my life!

One of my plans for retirement is to return to school and earn a Bachelor's Degree in History, so this might make a good research project.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This question has been addressed so many times that it simply isn't fresh, creative, or insightful. It's been asked so often, in fact, that such a question is boring and trite and doesn't reflect any thought at all.

But the good thing about education is that you'll be exposed to better questions.

 

[not nom]

such a question is boring and trite and doesn't reflect any thought at all.

because others asked it before? are you drunk?

 

[Bob L]

This question has been addressed so many times that it simply isn't fresh, creative, or insightful. It's been asked so often, in fact, that such a question is boring and trite and doesn't reflect any thought at all.

But the good thing about education is that you'll be exposed to better questions.

Care to expand on that?

 

[Storm]

No need to be cranky, AE.

Bob, I'm not sure this is the right place for the thread. Did you want to debate the issue?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I don't exactly know where to put this, so this looks to be the place.

Good luck with your studies. You may wish to look into John P. Meier.

 

[Bob L]

No need to be cranky, AE.

Bob, I'm not sure this is the right place for the thread. Did you want to debate the issue?

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the right place or not. I'm fairly new here so if anyone has any suggestions for thread placement then I'm all ears!

 

[Storm]

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the right place or not. I'm fairly new here so if anyone has any suggestions for thread placement then I'm all ears!

My first instinct would be Religious Debates, possibly Historical. I can move it if you'd like.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Actually, I'm not sure if this is the right place or not.

That greatly depends on the intent of the thread. Are you seeking to debate the fact of an historical Jesus or the context and dynamic by which such a presumed figure became 'Christ', or are you looking for further avenues of research?

 

[Bob L]

My first instinct would be Religious Debates, possibly Historical. I can move it if you'd like.

I'm not sure. While debating the issue might prove to be fruitful, I'm still in the learning phase. I'm trying to formulate in my head the idea that Jesus was a man and that his elevation to god status was a human formulation.

Actually, on second thought, go ahead and move it. A healthy debate might lead to new insights.

 

[Storm]

Done.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm not sure. While debating the issue might prove to be fruitful, I'm still in the learning phase. I'm trying to formulate in my head the idea that Jesus was a man and that his elevation to god status was a human formulation.

Actually, on second thought, go ahead and move it. A healthy debate might lead to new insights.

A healthy debate about what?

 

[not nom]

A healthy debate about what?

"the idea that Jesus was a man and that his elevation to god status was a human formulation" -- as opposed to, say, a debate about the debate.

I have refreshingly little to offer. other than maybe: weren't some epistles of paul written around 50-55 AD or something? I'm not sure which ones, but I guess if they contain stuff about jesus' divinity, there's not much of a case for that coming up much later, yes? it might still be a human formulation instead of something jesus claimed, but at any rate, it was while christianity was still underground and rad, I think.

 

[Bob L]

The problem is that there is precious little historical information about Jesus. It would have been nice if there had been some kind of running narration about his life other than the Gospels, but all that we have is that paragraph from Josephus. From what I've been reading so far it seems that Rome was unaware that Jesus even existed. There doesn't even seem to be any corroborating evidence that he even performed miracles!

 

[outhouse]

The problem is that there is precious little historical information about Jesus. It would have been nice if there had been some kind of running narration about his life other than the Gospels, but all that we have is that paragraph from Josephus. From what I've been reading so far it seems that Rome was unaware that Jesus even existed. There doesn't even seem to be any corroborating evidence that he even performed miracles!

There is so much grey area there is little that can be said with certainty and opinions vary depending on who you talk to.

My view is such.

There was a traveling teacher of judaism who was baptized by john who may have been a good healer for his time. He ticked off the romans who quickly put him to death on a cross.

 

[waitasec]

hey bob,

as far as i'm concerned ask away..that's how one learns

some forget that not everyone is on the same wave length

all power to you


and welcome to the forum.

 

[waitasec]

The problem is that there is precious little historical information about Jesus. It would have been nice if there had been some kind of running narration about his life other than the Gospels, but all that we have is that paragraph from Josephus. From what I've been reading so far it seems that Rome was unaware that Jesus even existed. There doesn't even seem to be any corroborating evidence that he even performed miracles!

you might have already come across this but just in case you haven't
Watch The Full Program Online | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS

this doc explains a lot of things from a biblical perspective that i think is thought provoking...even though it's not what you may be looking for
but it gave me somethings to chew on that can give and insight to what you are asking about

it's a little lengthy but if you have some time, i recommend it...

 

[Twilight Hue]

I take its primarily due to Emperor Constantine in light of his own conversion and in collaboration with Licinius, whereby they issued the Edict of Milan offering protection to Christians from persecution. I suspect there were political implications at stake for the sake of the republic, and commonwealth of the people from what I understand. I would take most adherents of Christianity however would attribute the spread of Christianity primarily to Saul of Tarsus aka Paul in propagating the faith. Taking that Jesus is the key central figure, his popularity not suprisingly grew with the religion.

 

[fallingblood]

you might have already come across this but just in case you haven't
Watch The Full Program Online | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS

this doc explains a lot of things from a biblical perspective that i think is thought provoking...even though it's not what you may be looking for
but it gave me somethings to chew on that can give and insight to what you are asking about

it's a little lengthy but if you have some time, i recommend it...

I second that. In addition, L. Michael White, one of the scholars on the program, has a book called From Jesus to Christianity. Another great source.

 

[fallingblood]

The problem is that there is precious little historical information about Jesus. It would have been nice if there had been some kind of running narration about his life other than the Gospels, but all that we have is that paragraph from Josephus. From what I've been reading so far it seems that Rome was unaware that Jesus even existed. There doesn't even seem to be any corroborating evidence that he even performed miracles!

If you could break this down to a few questions, I'm sure people here could help you in your search. We can start this slowly, and work from there.