Seeing things in their past? You are full of beans!

[TrueBeliever37]

OUR time, not that experienced by the light. WE measure the time and the distance. For the light itself, both the distance and the time are zero.

If that is true, then how can it have a speed? The math just doesn't work out. Speed of light = distance / time

Use the time frame the photon uses and sees, and explain how you can get a speed for light, if both time and distance are zero as far as the photon sees.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If light reaches it's destination instantly from the point of view of the photon, then why does it take light over 8 minutes to get here from the Sun?

How can it be here instantly but take us over 8 minutes to recognize it?

But then again how can it even get here, since you say it doesn't go any distance?

Because in the photon's frame of reference there is no time and there is no distance.

Once again, you need to learn about frames of reference. Your argument is similar, though not as bad, as that of a flat Earther wondering why we don't fly off the Earth when it is moving at 25,000 miles per hour.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If that is true, then how can it have a speed? The math just doesn't work out. Speed of light = distance / time

Use the time frame the photon uses and sees, and explain how you can get a speed for light, if both time and distance are zero as far as the photon sees.

If you are not willing to learn then no explanation can be given.

Are you ready to start with a simple Galilean transform?

 

[sayak83]

If that is true, then how can it have a speed? The math just doesn't work out. Speed of light = distance / time

Use the time frame the photon uses and sees, and explain how you can get a speed for light, if both time and distance are zero as far as the photon sees.

A photon sees itself at rest... obviously.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

A photon sees itself at rest... obviously.

Sitting still is not moving at the speed of Light ...obviously

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sitting still is not moving at the speed of Light.

When you are sitting in a train are you sitting still or moving at say 60 mph? It depends upon your frame of reference. As long as you refuse to even try to learn you will be confused.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Because in the photon's frame of reference there is no time and there is no distance.

Once again, you need to learn about frames of reference. Your argument is similar, though not as bad, as that of a flat Earther wondering why we don't fly off the Earth when it is moving at 25,000 miles per hour.

If no time and no distance, then no speed. It must just sit there, trying to look pretty.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If no time and no distance, then no speed. It must just sit there, trying to look pretty.

Until you understand the concept of frames of reference you will simply be wrong.

Why are you afraid to even try to learn?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

When you are sitting in a train are you sitting still or moving at say 60 mph? It depends upon your frame of reference. As long as you refuse to even try to learn you will be confused.

I would think I was moving at 60 mph. Just like when driving my car 60 mph to some destination. I would say I was traveling 60 mph.

I am trying to learn, but the math has to make sense.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I would think I was moving at 60 mph. Just like when driving my car 60 mph to some destination. I would say I was traveling 60 mph.

I am trying to learn, but the math has to make sense.

Then when a person throws a ball to you withing the train, and it is going 5 mph faster than the train why doesn't it feel like it hit you at 65 mph?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The point is that when you are in the train, or on a plane, you really can't tell how fast you are going. In the frame of the train you are stationary. In the frame of the plane, even though it may be moving at 600 mph, you will still be stationary in the plane. And that is why even though the Earth is spinning at thousands of miles per hour, orbiting the Sun at about 70,000 miles per hour, moving through the galaxy at rate higher than half a million miles per hour you still can feel like you are sitting still. And these are just Newtonian frames of reference.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Until you understand the concept of frames of reference you will simply be wrong.

Why are you afraid to even try to learn?

I plan to keep looking into the concepts you guys are talking about. But I have problems with all the contradictions.

Why does this theory keep contradicting itself?

First light experiences no time or distance.

Then it takes light 4 years to get here from a distance of 4ly away.

Then we are supposedly looking back in time.
(We might be seeing light that was originally emitted 4 years earlier, but we are not seeing the actual past, right as the light was emitted. There is a big difference.)

If aliens lived in those galaxies, and had strong enough telescopes, they would see the Earth as it looked in the past. They might even see dinosaurs walking on the surface.

Speed of Light = distance / time (The basic math doesn't even hold up) Unless you are willing to say light doesn't have any speed, or travel at all. Which conflicts with what science says the speed of light is.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Then when a person throws a ball to you withing the train, and it is going 5 mph faster than the train why doesn't it feel like it hit you at 65 mph?

Because the ball is moving with me and the train at 60 mph. It only gained 5 mph from the throw. So I only feel like I was hit by a 5 mph throw.

But surely you are not going to try to tell me the ball didn't experience time, or distance, or have speed.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I plan to keep looking into the concepts you guys are talking about. But I have problems with all the contradictions.

Why does this theory keep contradicting itself?

First light experiences no time or distance.

Then it takes light 4 years to get here from a distance of 4ly away.

Then we are supposedly looking back in time.
(We might be seeing light that was originally emitted 4 years earlier, but we are not seeing the actual past, right as the light was emitted. There is a big difference.)

If aliens lived in those galaxies, and had strong enough telescopes, they would see the Earth as it looked in the past. They might even see dinosaurs walking on the surface.

Speed of Light = distance / time (The basic math doesn't even hold up) Unless you are willing to say light doesn't have any speed, or travel at all. Which conflicts with what science says the speed of light is.

There are no contradictions. You simply are refusing to learn.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Because the ball is moving with me and the train at 60 mph. It only gained 5 mph from the throw. So I only feel like I was hit by a 5 mph throw.

Very good. There might be hope for you yet.

You can see that it is the relative velocity that matters.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You may be able to get a handle on Newtonian relativity rather easily. There is no distance or time dilation in Newtonian relativity so it does not bend the mind that much.


I do have to run for a while, but maybe we can start on working with relativistic speeds when I get back.

 

[Polymath257]

If light reaches it's destination instantly from the point of view of the photon, then why does it take light over 8 minutes to get here from the Sun?

How can it be here instantly but take us over 8 minutes to recognize it?

But then again how can it even get here, since you say it doesn't go any distance?

Time is relative to motion.

 

[Polymath257]

If that is true, then how can it have a speed? The math just doesn't work out. Speed of light = distance / time

Use the time frame the photon uses and sees, and explain how you can get a speed for light, if both time and distance are zero as far as the photon sees.

Once again, strictly speaking there isn't a reference frame moving at the speed of light. It only makes sense as a limit.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Time is relative to motion.

But both are zero according to your theory. The theory says Light experiences no time or distance - remember?

If light from the nearest star,Alpha Centauri takes more than 4 years to reach us. We aren't seeing that star 4 years in the past. We are finally seeing the light that was emitted 4 years earlier. There is a big difference.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Until you understand the concept of frames of reference you will simply be wrong.

Ok if a photon travels no distance, then how does it get here from the Sun? Or from 4ly away?

Since it is sitting still, what would be the train that is carrying it?