james blunt
Well-Known Member
I don't need to look up what it says a photon is , I bloody know well what it says. That doesn't matter, can you not try to imagine a different version ?
Does new scare you ?
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Seeing things in their past? You are full of beans!
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Does new scare you ?
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
Can you try to deal with reality where a photon is a particle?
james blunt
Well-Known Member
Ok I will accept ''your'' version if you provide a picture of this particle ?
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
I am not asking what I would observe. I am simply wanting a yes or no answer. Can a photon reach its destination to a planet 30 million light years away instantly with no time involved?
Does it need time to get there, since it can only travel at a set speed?
Surely you are not saying that 30 million light years between a star and a planet is no distance.
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Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
You ask that very thing when you claim that the speed of light can not be used to determine the age of the universe within the Earth's frame of reference.
If you are asking about the photon's point of view, then there wouldn't be any point that is 30 million light years away because there is no distance from the photon's point of view. Again, length contraction is infinite at the speed of light, as is time contraction.
Therefore, since you say that there is a distance then it has to be an observer that is not travelling at the speed of light. In this instance, it would take a photon 30 million years to travel 30 million light years in that observer's non-accelerating frame of reference.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
There is plenty of experimental verification of the photon particle, one of which I already gave you.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
Surely you are not saying that the 30 million light years between the star and a distant planet is not a distance.
And if it is a distance that the photon has to travel, and the photon is moving at a speed=c , does it take time or does the photon get there instantly?
It's not that hard a question, just choose one or the other.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
No there isn't , observer affect does not count.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
For the photon, there is no distance. That's what we keep telling you. Polymath did a great job of explaining this in a previous post. Here it is again:
1. The Earth: the star is 4 ly away, so light takes 4 years to travel. Time dilation factor is 1 (no shift). The galaxy is 10 million light years away, so it take light 10 million light years to travel.
2. A spacecraft going past Earth at 86% of the speed of light. Time dilation factor is 2 (all times and distances are divided by 2). In this frame, the star is 2 light years from Earth, so light takes 2 years to travel. The galaxy is 5 million light years from Earth, so light takes 5 million light years to travel.
3. A spacecraft going past Earth at 99.5% of the speed of light. Time dilation factor is 10 (all times and distances are divided by 10). In this frame, the star is .4=2/5 light years from Earth, so light takes .4 years to travel. The galaxy is 1 million light years from Earth, so light takes 1 million light years to travel.
4. A spacecraft going past Earth at 99.995% of the speed of light. Time dilation factor is 100 (all times and distances are divided by 100) In this frame, the star is .04 light years from Earth, and the light takes .04 years = 2 weeks to travel. The galaxy is 100,000 light years from Earth, so light takes 100,000 years to travel.
5. A spacecraft going past Earth at 99.99995% of the speed of light. Time dilation factor is 1000. In this frame, the star is now .004 light years from Earth and now takes .004 years = 1 1/2 days to travel. The galaxy is now 10,000 light years from Earth and the light from it takes 10,000 years to travel to Earth.
Notice how the distance keeps getting shorter the faster you go? That distance goes to 0 when you get to the speed of light.
For the photon, there is no distance. For you, there is a distance.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
We will need more than your say so.
TrueBeliever37
Well-Known Member
So if it's no distance for the photon, does that mean you are saying it reached its destination 30 million light years away instantly? I have to repeat my question because you didn't choose between time or instantly.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
Let us look why light behaves as a wave and a particle in the dual slit experiment.
Reason : Some plonker put two narrowing angled slits in the lights path to create an observer affect and thought it meant something.
Proof.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
There is nothing 30 million light years away for the photon.
I have to repeatedly tell you that there is no distance for the photon.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You do not seem to understand the concept that "distance" is dependent upon the frame of reference. You are assuming that the Newtonian physics you grew up with is correct. We know that simple Newtonian physics does not describe the universe that we are in. The fact that the speed of light is constant in all frames of reference. That was first discovered in the 1800's:
Michelson–Morley experiment - Wikipedia
The idea of an "aether" that Sustainer appears to believe in was shown to be wrong in that experiment.
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
If the observer effect was at the slit then you would just see one circular area of diffraction instead of an interference pattern. The reason that you see an interference pattern is because there is no observer effect at the slits.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
That's like saying there is no Maxwell electric field equations, did you not consider a field ''aether''?
-0.5q + 0.5q = 0q
Negative energy fields are not a problem for me.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
Oh my word, show me where these slits are in reality /in the universe other than the affect created by the plonker ?
Thermos aquaticus
Well-Known Member
Show us where the observer is in the experiment. It isn't at the slits, I can tell you that much.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
The slits are the observer in the observer affect.
james blunt
Well-Known Member
In science, the term observer effect means that the act of observing will influence the phenomenon being observed. For example, for us to "see" an electron, a photon must first interact with it, and this interaction will change the path of that electron.