Seers -- Augurs or Stoners?

[Feathers in Hair]

You've never tried opium, then. That stuff is da bomb. Okay, I've never tried it, either, but what leads you to believe that drugs would hinder meditation? Many of them are acting on receptors that are activated naturally during such states of mind, anyway.

My apologies if it seemed as if I was stating that I believed that drugs would hinder meditation. What I was responding to was the thought that it was being used to 'recieve messages from god'. In all honesty, I don't know if they would or not. I can't know because I'm not having visions gained through this method. What little I have experienced has been through trying to communicate with friends when they are in 'altered states'. If I have attempted to relay a message through that friend, it tends to change a great deal by the time it is recieved by the other party. (For example, asking someone to order you certain things on your pizza and then hearing them ordering it with toppings that you didn't ask for and leaving out ones you requested.) But, then again, if someone percieves that the messages that they're relaying truly are from an all-powerful deity, then I imagine they would trust that the god would take that into account and allow them to convey and interpret those visions accurately. I just don't know.

 

[Flappycat]

No apology is necessary for stating one's views, Feathers. In any case, have you researched the actual effects of certain drugs on the body? The really interesting thing is that one can often trigger the same reactions without the help of such substances. Now, do you want to hear the really wacky thing? Connect this: the receptors acted upon by opium seem to be related to regulation of the body temperature, the same receptors can be activated through creative thought and some forms of learning, and there is a certain order of monks who seem to be able to survive in extreme cold through meditation. What I'm thinking is that some of these monkhoods may be unknowingly practicing one of the most advanced medical sciences in the world.

 

[Comet]

No apology is necessary for stating one's views, Feathers. In any case, have you researched the actual effects of certain drugs on the body? The really interesting thing is that one can often trigger the same reactions without the help of such substances. Now, do you want to hear the really wacky thing? Connect this: the receptors acted upon by opium seem to be related to regulation of the body temperature, the same receptors can be activated through creative thought and some forms of learning, and there is a certain order of monks who seem to be able to survive in extreme cold through meditation. What I'm thinking is that some of these monkhoods may be unknowingly practicing one of the most advanced medical sciences in the world.

I've read of such things as well. Yet, I can't help but think of the modern age. If this is the most advanced medical science, then it could be put to a better use for the many. States of meditation/chanting/drumming DO cause physiological changes in the body. If one were to understand that, they could offer such a "drug" to those who don't understand it- to those who haven't committed a life-time to it- to those whom such things don't effect.

In regards to being able to control temprature, sleep patterns, etc... some would need the drug, while others just need to be taught the ways of doing it yourself. In a spiritual aspect and back to the OP and discussion here:

Some need a drug to enhance a natural state of being. As MIKE182 said, Crowley (I believe Aleister) used drugs to show those that didn't know what it is they are aiming for. If one has never attained such a state, how would they know what they are looking for. If a drug can do this for you, then (I think) many would look for the natural way to do it so they don't need the drug from another source. METHOD.

 

[Flappycat]

Oh, I'm very much a behaviorist. If I ever go into business as a clinical psychologist, I'll keep it largely drug-free. I'd refer cases that can't be handled without the help of drugs to trusted specialists, of course. There are myriad ways of influencing body chemistry from the inside, such as reading an engaging book. Therefore, in regard to the "seers," I'm really quite apt to go with "stoners." They may not be taking drugs, but it's quite possible for some people to flood the system with their natural analogs. If you're hooked on meditation, yes, you might be a stoner. Don't worry, though; it's perfectly healthy, generally speaking.

 

[Heracles]

I think that there is a large distinction between stoners and drug-inspired seers. First of all, stoners /junkies or whatever you call 'em use drugs as recreation and habit. Seers who use them, on the other hand, try to employ the drug for specific mental purposes. Getting stoned isnt specific enough, communion with a higher power is however. I would also agree with some other people though, in that yeah, drugs cause a different state of mind, and often activate natural parts of the brain and body, but it is probably safer, healthier, more effective and even more impressive to achive those states of mind without external drugs. The drugs are kind of an equalizer. Anyone can take mushrooms, and with some training maybe see some sort of vision. But it takes a master to do the same thing through practice and precision. The drugs can be like a short-cut to achieve the same ends. My analogy is this. Its like getting a pizza(pizza being the chat with god, or vision or whatever). Some people will take the time and walk down to the pizza place, wait for it to be made, and then bring it back home to eat it. Others will pick up the phone(aka drug of choice) and just order it. In minutes it shows up at your doorstep. The guy who walks to the pizza place got more excercise, and most importantly knows how to get to the pizza anytime he can. The other guy got the pizza quicker and with less effort, but all he knows is the phone number, he is lost without his phone.