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Selective Service - discriminatory against males

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
I have two sons of age. One who enlisted into the military and is currently at Ft. Hood, and one who just turned 18 at the end of June. When they both turned 18, however, my family heard me tearfully celebrate with pride and woefully state how the state considers my sons to be more disposable than my daughter.

From the Selective Service System government website in the U.S.

Even though the Secretary of Defense has decided to allow women in combat jobs, the law has not been changed to include this. Consequently, only men are currently required to register by law with Selective Service during ages 18 thru 25. Women still do not register. (January 24, 2013)

I have another son at 16 and a daughter at 14. I, for one, would like to see equality in the laws for all my children. This has been challenged in the courts for at least the last two decades, however I wonder what can be done with the military budget and organization/protocols to ensure equality for both genders.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
It scares the living *%##*%#^* out of me.

Technically I havent signed a thing still so I am still off the hook.

I dont want anything to do with any war. That grey has too much dark for me, the people on the other side whether their side is right or wrong have families and loved ones.

Forget my life, killing others for my country sounds like selling my soul. Supporting a war against my will by tax would be bad enough.
 

Qhost

Exercising Thought
Selective service is a common issue, I'm glad you brought it up OP.

There seems to be a generally trend of increasing pressure and awareness of the imbalance here. The calls generally come down to 'Either require woman to sign up as well, or get rid of it all together!'. I'm not a fan at all of the concept, and I would consider the former (requiring women) not to be progress. I would love to see it removed entirely.

I personally doubt it would happen for at least a decade, military tend to be slow on a lot of legislation (from what I've seen).
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
From the OP link.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law. According to law, a man must register with Selective Service within 30 days of his 18th birthday. Selective Service will accept late registrations but not after a [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] man[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] has reached age 26. You may be denied benefits or a job if you have not registered. You can register at any U.S. Post Office and do not need a social security number. When you do obtain a social security number, let Selective Service know. Provide a copy of your new social security number card; being sure to include your complete name, date of birth, Selective Service registration number, and current mailing address; and mail to the Selective Service System, P.O. Box 94636, Palatine, IL 60094-4636. [/FONT]
 

Qhost

Exercising Thought
From the OP link.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you are a man ages 18 through 25 and living in the U.S., then you must register with Selective Service. It’s the law. According to law, a man must register with Selective Service within 30 days of his 18th birthday. Selective Service will accept late registrations but not after a [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] man[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] has reached age 26. You may be denied benefits or a job if you have not registered. You can register at any U.S. Post Office and do not need a social security number. When you do obtain a social security number, let Selective Service know. Provide a copy of your new social security number card; being sure to include your complete name, date of birth, Selective Service registration number, and current mailing address; and mail to the Selective Service System, P.O. Box 94636, Palatine, IL 60094-4636. [/FONT]

In the context of the mass NSA spying, things like this are even more frightening.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Nixon's ending the military draft was a big step towards not just equality, but justice in general. (The idea that the obligation to kill or die for one's country depended upon being a healthy straight male with a low lottery number & poor political connections struck me as ridiculously immoral.) Still, we are at risk of having it re-instituted due to increased war or pressure to make military demographics more closely resemble the country's.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Generally speaking, I don't believe any drafts should be used unless out of absolute necessity (I'm thinking World War II being the last war I'd view as qualifying for that criteria for the U.S.), but as long as there is a registration system for a potential draft if necessary, I do believe that the law should not differentiate between men and women, and that if one is required to sign up then so should the other.
 

moodys

Member
I don't think anybody should be forced to fight a war they don't believe in. Ideally focus should be on protecting men's rights with regards to military sign-up and war-briefings where there are cases where men have clearly been misled. In addition, the tactics used by the military to persuade boys to sign-up should be scrutinized. Although having women in similar numbers to men on the front line poses a national security risk.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have two sons of age. One who enlisted into the military and is currently at Ft. Hood, and one who just turned 18 at the end of June. When they both turned 18, however, my family heard me tearfully celebrate with pride and woefully state how the state considers my sons to be more disposable than my daughter.

From the Selective Service System government website in the U.S.



I have another son at 16 and a daughter at 14. I, for one, would like to see equality in the laws for all my children. This has been challenged in the courts for at least the last two decades, however I wonder what can be done with the military budget and organization/protocols to ensure equality for both genders.

First, congratulations to your son for his choice (something I respect). Second, I'll have to look this up because it's been a while since I chose my fiancé over the marines, but I believe that women are prohibited from combat jobs, from Special Forces and SEALs to infantry. In other words, I believe that the draft protocol isn't the only US military inequality, but I'll have to confirm and get some specifics.

EDIT: Well that was interesting. Apparently, women have been allowed by law (not policy) to be in any military position whatsoever at least since 1990, and for the most part earlier. However, until 2013, the DOD policy in place and without any plans to change it precluded women from serving "units, below the brigade level, whose primary mission is to engage in direct combat on ground" or basically from serving in combat units ("infantry, artillery, armor, combat engineers, and special operations units of battalion size or smaller"). This policy was called the "Direct Combat Assignment Rule" (DCAR), but is being eliminated. On in the early months of 2013, the various branches were required to submit memoranda that included a plan for integration of women into DCAs. The requirement is to complete this by Jan. 1 2013 (which is ridiculous; it takes less than 2 hours to watch G. I. Jane, and she went through BUD/S).

Interestingly, thanks to previous military restructuring, all special operations units were for the most part put under the command of SOCOM or USSOCOM (Special ops command). The marines didn't like this, and so Force Recon and I believe FAST too didn't fall under SOCOM control, but other SOF marine units were created and now do, alongside Special Forces, SEALs, the Rangers, 160th SOA regiment, and whatever names groups like ISA or delta are going by these days.

Which means that that the virtually all the most difficult (mentally, physically, emotionally, and psychologically) stressful training courses that exist in the US military are required for each of the individual special operation units which all fall under the command of Admiral McRaven. And therefore he has to do, in "collaboration" with the various defense secretaries (because military branches aren't at all competitive, and especially not the upper level commands), what all the branches are required to do: integrate this new policy. However, the only units that are under SOCOM's command are the elite units, and every unit member has already passed the basic training and more required to be in the military branch they are already in. To be in the unit under SOCOM, they have to do a great deal more. So the heads of SOCOM, after all that work restructuring the US SOF units under one roof, now are responsible for integrating females into the units that 99% of males couldn't get into (including non-service members). I can just feel the political cogs in the various political machines turning. But they "made there own beds" in a number of ways here, so now they get to sleep in them.
 
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Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
I have two sons of age. One who enlisted into the military and is currently at Ft. Hood, and one who just turned 18 at the end of June. When they both turned 18, however, my family heard me tearfully celebrate with pride and woefully state how the state considers my sons to be more disposable than my daughter.

From the Selective Service System government website in the U.S.



I have another son at 16 and a daughter at 14. I, for one, would like to see equality in the laws for all my children. This has been challenged in the courts for at least the last two decades, however I wonder what can be done with the military budget and organization/protocols to ensure equality for both genders.
Hopefully that will change soon now that the last few barriers to women in combat are being lifted. Although I would love to see us adopt something similar to Israel. But that is a different thread.
 

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
Its not just combat.Females can serve in other areas just as males do.Both should have to register or no one should.

HA! One of my sons called inquiring on joining the Coast Guard when he was about 20 . They said he was too fat call them back when he lost 20lbs. Bet the Army wouldn't care if they drafted him in a war.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Generally speaking, I don't believe any drafts should be used unless out of absolute necessity (I'm thinking World War II being the last war I'd view as qualifying for that criteria for the U.S.), but as long as there is a registration system for a potential draft if necessary, I do believe that the law should not differentiate between men and women, and that if one is required to sign up then so should the other.

Conscription is slavery. I don't think that gender equality is any sort of positive (even partially positive) compromise any more than slavery of African Americans would have been helped by allowing white people to be enslaved as well.

IMO, nothing short of a complete abolition of the draft is acceptable. Yes, drafting men is a affront to human dignity, but a system where women were drafted would be no less of an affront.
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
Its not just combat.Females can serve in other areas just as males do.Both should have to register or no one should.

HA! One of my sons called inquiring on joining the Coast Guard when he was about 20 . They said he was too fat call them back when he lost 20lbs. Bet the Army wouldn't care if they drafted him in a war.

The Coast Guard has higher standards than the army :D

Also, you have to be 6 feet tall to join.
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
The Coast Guard has higher standards than the army :D

Also, you have to be 6 feet tall to join.

Have to be 6ft so you can walk to shore if your ship goes down, right?

They don't have higher standards than any other service, they just don't need people as bad so they aren't as willing to give waivers. Actually, the Army is hard to get into as well right now. They are trying to cut down, or at least they were a year ago when I left. A few years ago they needed people badly though. They let everyone in: you are a 40 year old, overweight, felon? Sure we'll give you three waivers to get in. Today, if you don't meet the requirements you don't get in.
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
Well his grandfather served 20 years at 5' 8. Must of changed standards.

It's not a standard, it's a joke the Navy tells. They have to 6 ft tall so if their ship sinks, they can walk ashore. Get it? Because they just stay docked or never go into open waters. In reality that's not true, but it's just a joke. All the services have them about the other services.
 

moodys

Member
Uhhh how did you arrive at that conclusion? Are women more likely to be foreign agents?
No however they are more likely to develop fatigue fractures alongside other physical constraints. I don't believe this is the thread to debate this, I was just making the point that I would not sacrifice US national security for gender equality.
 
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