Self-criticism in the American Left base

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because your name starts with "TAG"

Strange reason.
Somehow I doubt it.

 

[BrightShadow]

Strange reason.
Somehow I doubt it.

Well I meant to address your post

In other words, I consider secular / humanistic morality to be vastly superior to authority based morality.
And I submit that the vast majority of religious folks agree with that also, considering how they cherry pick which religious "rules" or supposedly "moral" directives they will follow and which not. The reasoning they use to decide this, doesn't come from their religion. It comes from secular / humanistic reasoning.

This is why, for example, they will generally be against slavery even though their religious books have no problem with slavery at all.

Btw, we need objective morality
You don't believe in a creator?
When the Apple phone first came out - did it come with an instruction manual?
No?
We need instruction manual from our creator.
The manual is out there. Seek and find.
It tells you what is right and what is wrong and what should be left alone.
It shows you the path - it is not the destination.
So, yes! There is room for adjustments.
You have to learn and adopt certain things (i.e. Getting rid of Slavery).

But it doesn't give you a golden ticket to start messing with genes.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Well I meant to address your post




Btw, we need objective morality
You don't believe in a creator?
When the Apple phone first came out - did it come with an instruction manual?
No?
We need instruction manual from our creator.
The manual is out there. Seek and find.
It tells you what is right and what is wrong and what should be left alone.
It shows you the path - it is not the destination.
So, yes! There is room for adjustments.
You have to learn and adopt certain things (i.e. Getting rid of Slavery).

But it doesn't give you a golden ticket to start messing with genes.

If the Instruction Manual was the same for each individual, no matter where they were born, you might have a point, but unfortunately we haven't got this, will never likely have such, so perhaps doing some thinking for oneself might be better - for those capable of doing so.

 

[BrightShadow]

If the Instruction Manual was the same for each individual, no matter where they were born, you might have a point, but unfortunately we haven't got this, will never likely have such, so perhaps doing some thinking for oneself might be better - for those capable of doing so.

On certain topics - almost all known major religions advocate the same thing.
This topic qualifies as a common problem.
The same voice is telling you - it is a no no!
Y is not an .
There can't be two Y's for a reason! Once you break that code - we are done! Point of no return!

 

[Mock Turtle]

On certain topics - almost all known major religion advocate the same thing.
This topic qualifies as a common problem.
The same voice is telling you - it is a no no!
Y is not an .
There can't be two Y's for a reason! Once you break that code - we are done! Point of no return!

You aren't looking closely enough then all around the world, given I don't see that much commonality apart from a majority believing in a single creator-type God.

 

[BrightShadow]

You aren't looking closely enough then all around the world, given I don't see that much commonality apart from a majority believing in a single creator-type God.

What do the majority believe regarding this?
Do they agree with you?
If they don't then don't you think the majority should rule.
Why go against the majority?

 

[Mock Turtle]

What do the majority believe regarding this?

Erm, that there is one Creator and that such created existence - in various ways, since they will not all agree even as to such though. As to sex and gender - no idea.

Do they agree with you?

What has this to do with anything?

If they don't then don't you think the majority should rule.
Why go against the majority?

Majority opinions will not necessarily lead to truth. Not found this out yet? You might need to peruse history to find all the changes that have occurred over time - but much certainty (if there is ever such) will stop when you get to the first written material, even if our history continued from before then. And this subject is one such no doubt.

 

[Wirey]

On certain topics - almost all known major religions advocate the same thing.
This topic qualifies as a common problem.
The same voice is telling you - it is a no no!
Y is not an .
There can't be two Y's for a reason! Once you break that code - we are done! Point of no return!

You are discussing the difference between sex and gender. There are two sexes. There are a plethora of genders. History is loaded with cases of societies that approved or disapproved of various expressions of sexuality, but the X-Y chromosome thing is sex, and yes, there are two sexes. Gender being directly derived from sex is a human creation strongly linked to religious and social paradigms. And there are multiple genetic defects that wind up with them being mixed differently. XXX, XXY and XYY being the most common.

Trisomy X - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Klinefelter syndrome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

XYY syndrome - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Since, according to most religions, God supplies life to each baby, and that God is incapable of error, it would appear that your argument is in fact without merit. God puts two Ys in the occasional kid just for kicks.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Btw, we need objective morality

I just explained to you that the closest we have to that is secular / humanistic morality. Curiously though, you decided not to quote that part.

You don't believe in a creator?

I don't, but even if I did, that doesn't change anything.
A morality from authority isn't objective. It's subjective to that authority.
An objective morality would have to be based in fact, not in opinion. That's kind of what "objective" means.
A morality dictated by an authority, would be a morality according to that authority's opinion. Hence, subjective.

When the Apple phone first came out - did it come with an instruction manual?

Instruction manuals deal with how things work, not with ethics.

No?
We need instruction manual from our creator.
The manual is out there. Seek and find.
It tells you what is right and what is wrong and what should be left alone.

No. Instruction manuals tell you how things work.
For example, an iphone manual will tell you how to make a photograph using the camera app. It deals with operation.
It would not tell you not to send d*ck pics to random women, which deals with ethics.

You have to learn and adopt certain things (i.e. Getting rid of Slavery).

The bible and quran "manual" tells you that keeping slaves is ok.

But it doesn't give you a golden ticket to start messing with genes.

I don't know where you got your "information", but I assure you that homesexuality, transexuality, transgenderism etc has nothing to do with "messing with genes".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What do the majority believe regarding this?
Do they agree with you?
If they don't then don't you think the majority should rule.
Why go against the majority?

You should read up on the argumentum ad populum.

 

[BrightShadow]

You are discussing the difference between sex and gender. There are two sexes. There are a plethora of genders. History is loaded with cases of societies that approved or disapproved of various expressions of sexuality, but the X-Y chromosome thing is sex, and yes, there are two sexes. Gender being directly derived from sex is a human creation strongly linked to religious and social paradigms. And there are multiple genetic defects that wind up with them being mixed differently. XXX, XXY and XYY being the most common.

Where are you going with this?
Are you in favor of a Man with XY chromosome competing with Women with XX chromosome?
No?
Then give it a rest.

I don't know where you got your "information", but I assure you that homesexuality, transexuality, transgenderism etc has nothing to do with "messing with genes".

What were we talking about?
A biological man trying to pass as a biological female and compete in women's sports.
Are you okay with a man competing with women?
Why are you trying switch gears and go into homosexuality realm?
Is that your thing? I mean switching gears - that is.

 

[Wirey]

Where are you going with this?
Are you in favor of a Man with XY chromosome competing with Women with XX chromosome?
No?
Then give it a rest.

I wasn't 'going' anywhere. I was just pointing out that you don't seem to be differentiating between sex and gender. I wasn't sure if you knew the difference.

 

[Alien826]

I mean...
I guess there are so may leftists in the United States.
People who believe in social equality, in economic fairness, in a juster and more egalitarian system.

Do you really think that the Democratic Party is a leftist party?
I mean ...it's filled with speculators, banksters, people who worship the Military Industrial Complex...Big Pharma.

Do you ever engage in self-criticism?
Something like: maybe if we got rid of all these wealthy opportunists...we would recover credibility?



Thank you.

Yes, I think that the Democratic party should return to its roots, representing the "working" population and dumping the billionaire influence. But, what if that guaranteed many more years of right wing rule?

Here's a question for you, and it's one of principle, rather than practicality. Should a political party have a set of policies that reflect their morally held principles and campaign on that, regardless of what they think the electoral result will be? Or form their policies to reflect what is most likely to get them elected?

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, I think that the Democratic party should return to its roots, representing the "working" population and dumping the billionaire influence.

Nice. Hopefully.

But, what if that guaranteed many more years of right wing rule?

The anti-banking speeches make you win...always. I can promise you that.

Here's a question for you, and it's one of principle, rather than practicality. Should a political party have a set of policies that reflect their morally held principles and campaign on that, regardless of what they think the electoral result will be?

What is a party?
A party is an elitist group of people who proposes their own agenda to the voters?

Because in my view a party is a group of commoners that share the same values and decide to found a party.
But again...there are dozens of parties here, in my country. So...
there are so many different ideologies.

Or form their policies to reflect what is most likely to get them elected?

Well...if they want to get elected, they should do what the people wants them to do.
So...yes, absolutely. They should form their policies on the basis of the voters' needs and desires.

 

[Valjean]

Well I meant to address your post

Btw, we need objective morality
You don't believe in a creator?
When the Apple phone first came out - did it come with an instruction manual?
No?
We need instruction manual from our creator.

No. We do not. When we do get instruction manuals, they not only seem to contradict each other, but they negatively impact prosperity, safety, happiness, and social justice, and the more fervently we adhere to their instructions, the more repressive and aggressive society becomes.
Look at the various countries around the world. The least corrupt, safest, most prosperous and happiest are the least religious ones. The most religious are repressive, poor, corrupt and violent. Compare Western Europe with the Middle East, for example.

The manual is out there. Seek and find.
It tells you what is right and what is wrong and what should be left alone.

There are dozens of such manuals. How to choose....
In re. The Bible, its "morality" is cruel, unjust, unfair, and often makes no sense.

It shows you the path - it is not the destination.
So, yes! There is room for adjustments.
You have to learn and adopt certain things (i.e. Getting rid of Slavery).

But God condones slavery. The Bible gives specific instructions on who you can enslave, how you can enslave them, how you should beat them, &c.
Have you even read the Bible? Do I need to cite passages?

But it doesn't give you a golden ticket to start messing with genes.

Who's messing with genes? What's wrong with messing with genes? For that matter, the Bible doesn't give us a ticket to do most of what we now do in our lives.

 

[BrightShadow]

No. We do not. When we do get instruction manuals, they not only seem to contradict each other, but they negatively impact prosperity, safety, happiness, and social justice, and the more fervently we adhere to their instructions, the more repressive and aggressive society becomes.
Look at the various countries around the world. The least corrupt, safest, most prosperous and happiest are the least religious ones. The most religious are repressive, poor, corrupt and violent. Compare Western Europe with the Middle East, for example.

There are dozens of such manuals. How to choose....
In re. The Bible, its "morality" is cruel, unjust, unfair, and often makes no sense.

But God condones slavery. The Bible gives specific instructions on who you can enslave, how you can enslave them, how you should beat them, &c.
Have you even read the Bible? Do I need to cite passages?

Who's messing with genes? What's wrong with messing with genes? For that matter, the Bible doesn't give us a ticket to do most of what we now do in our lives.

I specifically said - most religion would agree on this ground. I did not say there are no contradictions.
This is not the religious part of the forum.

I did say - certain doctrines just show you the way - it is not the destination.

What's wrong with messing with genes?

I even showed you what will happen when you mess with the genes. Look at the pic

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What were we talking about?

Have you already lost track?

A biological man trying to pass as a biological female and compete in women's sports.

Which has nothing to do with "messing with genes".
Second, no biological man is "trying to pass as a biological female".

Are you okay with a man competing with women?

Depends on the discipline. In general, I would say that sports that are segregated, are so for a reason. In those cases, no.

Why are you trying switch gears and go into homosexuality realm?

I'm not. Do you have attention span problems? I said "...I assure you that homesexuality, transexuality, transgenderism etc has nothing to do with "messing with genes"."

Is that your thing? I mean switching gears - that is.

No. Your thing however seems to be arguing strawman, moving the goalpost and faking misunderstanding what people are saying.

I also note you completely ignored the morality part of the post. It's okay.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I even showed you what will happen when you mess with the genes. Look at the pic

Sounds like you have been watching to much Stargate Sg1. You realize that the Asgard aren't real and that Stargate is not a documentary, right?

 

[BrightShadow]

Sounds like you have been watching to much Stargate Sg1. You realize that the Asgard aren't real and that Stargate is not a documentary, right?

Looking at you avatar/ PFP - it seems you really believe you are a spaghetti monster.
Product of a failed genetic experiment!

 

[oldbadger]

............like they changed in France in 1789.
They turned France upside down.

I guess that the Democratic Party can be turned upside down as well.

They wont allow us to watch guillotine executions on BBC News.........