Self deception. What is the evolutionary advantage of self deception.?

[David T]

If there was no self-deception, there would not have been any I, me or mine.

yes and then we would not discover..Seems like slavery, we start off thinking what a great idea, and then later go not such a great idea. It's funny, Buddha's enlightenment rises from a failure, out of his failure he succeeds. I discovered the laughing Buddha, what a strange experience.

 

[David T]

Supposedly an embryo is parasitic. It deceives the host mother into redirecting resources to itself. So even before birth a child is deceiving it's mother. I think viruses trick their hosts in similar ways.

If I can deceive you into buying land that doesn't exist then then I'm acquiring more resources for myself.

The ability to deceive seems a obvious survival trait. Like others have mentioned, self-deception facilitates the ability to deceive others.

Sometimes it's easy to spot someone lying. They are nervous, sweat, fidgety etc...

It they can believe the lie, then physically they will react as if they were trying the truth. The deception is more convincing.

Folks that can deceive convincingly are probably very good at self deception.

like marketing people!!! Joel osteen!!!! and on and on it goes.

 

[David T]

This is an interesting question. The evolution and psychology of self-deception. - PubMed - NCBI for example:

In this article we argue that self-deception evolved to facilitate interpersonal deception by allowing people to avoid the cues to conscious deception that might reveal deceptive intent. Self-deception has two additional advantages: It eliminates the costly cognitive load that is typically associated with deceiving, and it can minimize retribution if the deception is discovered. Beyond its role in specific acts of deception, self-deceptive self-enhancement also allows people to display more confidence than is warranted, which has a host of social advantages.

I started off the post with an article in the catholic reporter of a Freud defender. I had to laugh at the article it would cause freud to roll over in his grave and Jung chortle to Freud "I told you so". Is a society that requires self deception as an enhanced social advantage a healthy culture? I don't see that as being the case.

 

[David T]

I've long pondered this. Starting with the premise that all human traits serve some evolutionary
advantage, self deception must be useful. Let's consider humans facing some problem with
multiple solutions, eg, explore outside of familiar ground, or stay where it's safe & reliable.
Which ever path is chosen, supreme confidence in one's choice serves survival.
Old Henry Ford quote....
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right."

Of course, doubt, fear & continual questioning also serve us. This explains why we have a
mixture of predilections. The environment sorts out winners & losers, but still genetically
preserves this diversity of approaches. Society is doomed to have a mix of believers &
non-believers, eh. Tis best to just get along with each other.

there is a song by john prine "inspite of ourselves" probably the truest bit of philosophy I have ever heard sung.LOL.

 

[Sanzbir]

I originally posted a link to a defender of Freud in the catholic reporter on the original post. what is wrong with the article?

Where did you read criticism of the article in my post??

 

[David T]

Where did you read criticism of the article in my post??

I didn't. My impression was that you have some idea that you understand ancient preliterate aboriginalists. But I don't see that in your description at the same time. It's like the article. It wasn't a critique I just don't see how what you said isn't simply projection of someone highly intelligent and educated backwards onto how people are thinking 15 thousand years ago. I certainly do not think you are stupid at all.

 

[illykitty]

I think it can be advantageous in a few ways, at least when I think about it quickly. I may be able to come up with more reasons but here's two:

First is fitting in. Maybe people wouldn't like to admit it, but most don't like to be the odd one out. If your beliefs don't conform to the tribe, you might be rejected. It's advantageous for survival to fit in and it's more effective to deceive oneself than to lie constantly.

Second, it may keep someone hopeful, sane or whatever else. Not everyone can cope with life's rough challenges without some belief, even if it's a fraudulent outlook. Unless one learns to change their outlook, maybe self-deception is the only way to cope?

 

[whirlingmerc]

I stumbled across an article singing the praises of freud for catholics in the Catholic reporter.

We’ve nothing to fear from Freud | CatholicHerald.co.uk

It caused me to wonder what advantage self deception has in Evolutionary terms. I also wondered, why does it even exist? It's a quality that won't show up in formal science itself in observational science of nature. There is not a self deception particle in particle physics. We would not find a self deception fossil in the fossil records. So self deception itself while factual, at the same time does not literally exist in traditional measurable ways. It only exists for us in casual ways. Are trees self deceived? In antiquity self deception was personified or clothed. Today It seems everyone believes they are immune and everyone else is infected. Strange world indeed.

Our life always expresses the result of our dominant thoughts.
Soren kierkegaard

No advantage. Self deception is from the fall.

 

[David T]

No advantage. Self deception is from the fall.

Why is it so orthodoxy today? How did it become Christian? The nicene creed gives it its existence "we believe" which to has zero to do with the new testament actually. Is it just immaturity? Is it just a child lost in its own fantasies? And why, in what I do, which is build buildings, that what I believe, or, I do not believe, or I am agnostic would it create instant death? After all you would have me thrown in jail if "I believed, did not believe, was agnostic," a building into existence and it killed your family. I am just a simple carpenter asking simple questions. Why is" I believe, I don't believe, I am agnostic, " our apparent default for many at all? Hell, I call that normal!!!!, for normals, It's reality to have as your fundemental, a something I cannot do in building my buildings. That seems clueless to me, on all three accounts.

 

[arthurjeremypearson]

We're really good at recognizing patterns.

But we're also good at making up patterns.

"Telling the difference between a made-up pattern and a real pattern" isn't "deception" necessarily, but perhaps an emergent property of your skill at pattern recognition encountering the wild universe where we can imagine patterns in the chaos around us.

 

[Yerda]

It caused me to wonder what advantage self deception has in Evolutionary terms. I also wondered, why does it even exist?

Here's a possibility, the person who can believe a lie they invented can more ably spread it.

Those who can lie best can induce others to serve their needs. Those who can spot lies can avoid being tricked into serving the needs of others. Those who can lie to themselves can tell lies to others without the signs of lying.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Here's a possibility, the person who can believe a lie they invented can more ably spread it.

Those who can lie best can induce others to serve their needs. Those who can spot lies can avoid being tricked into serving the needs of others. Those who can lie to themselves can tell lies to others without the signs of lying.

perhaps devolution would be a better descirption?

 

[Yerda]

perhaps devolution would be a better descirption?

It's not what I'd call a good thing but nature often selects for things that we'd think horrid. It's evolution - it's just not pleasing to note.

 

[David T]

Here's a possibility, the person who can believe a lie they invented can more ably spread it.

Those who can lie best can induce others to serve their needs. Those who can spot lies can avoid being tricked into serving the needs of others. Those who can lie to themselves can tell lies to others without the signs of lying.

Ha that's common it's the salesman. It's the characters in movies who are always the bad guy!!! Ever notice they deceive them selves and it grows. Harvey wienstien perfect example right now

 

[Yerda]

Ha that's common it's the salesman. It's the characters in movies who are always the bad guy!!! Ever notice they deceive them selves and it grows. Harvey wienstien perfect example right now

It's much worse than that - it's all of us. We all practice self-deception. Most of us to extents that would be funny if it weren't so depressing.