Self-Harm for Religious Purposes

[Quintessence]

Self-harm is a controversial topic, in just about any context. It is typically assumed to be universally bad in my culture, and is also seen as symptomatic of mental illness or deviancy in general. However, in spite of these associations, self-harm has been used as a religious practice for various purposes for a very long time. The experience of pain can serve to facilitate mystical experiences or to revel in the sensuality of being alive. It may also be used as a way of honoring what is sacred to a religion, as an offering of personal suffering to affirm dedication. There are other roles self-harm may serve as well within the context of religion, and it is my hope that we can explore these possibilities in this discussion. Although my preference is for discussion rather than debate, I understand the nature of this topic invites debate, so I have placed it in a debate subforum.

What do you think about self-harm in general? For religious purposes, specifically?

What roles do you envision self-harming playing as a religious practice? How could it be beneficial? Or perhaps you see it as universally bad? If so, why?

Have you ever engaged in self-harm practices for religious purposes? What did you learn from it?

(this thread is at least in part inspired by National Geographic's "Taboo" series and episodes like this one, which is just amazingly fascinating to me... perhaps because I am a weirdo)

DISCLAIMER: please use common sense, guys; the intent of this thread is not to advocate or endorse self-harm in the context of mental illness, much less suicide. If you're mentally ill, get help!

 

[rusra02]

Asceticism has been commonly practiced by professed Christians for centuries, but I do not believe the Bible gives any support to the practice. Colossians 2:20-23 says regarding such practices; "If you died together with Christ with respect to the elementary things of the world, why do you live as if still part of the world by further subjecting yourselves to the decrees: “Do not handle, nor taste, nor touch,” things that all perish with their use, according to the commands and teachings of men? Although those things have an appearance of wisdom in a self-imposed form of worship and a false humility, a harsh treatment of the body, they are of no value in combating the satisfying of the flesh."
These verses show such practices originate with men, not God, and they are self-imposed and of no value to true spirituality.
Jesus Christ was not an ascetic, rather enjoying food and drink. Wearing hair shirts, self injury, and similar practices have no place in true Christianity, and a prominent place in false "Christianity", IMO.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ooh, this is right up my alley!

Catholicism, particularly Western Catholicism, focuses a lot on suffering, perhaps more so than any other Christian denomination.

For starters:
Mortification of the flesh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mortification in Roman Catholic teaching - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Redemptive suffering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cilice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically, there's a long tradition in Catholicism of suffering that is offered up to Christ being a form of penance and reducing the punishment of sins. So that's why you have practices like self-flagellation (whipping yourself), the wearing of the cilice and hairshirts, binding oneself with chains under your clothes, taking cold showers, fasting, etc. Such practices go back to the Israelites, who also did things like wear sackcloth and ashes as a form of penance.

 

[Nietzsche]

Have you ever engaged in self-harm practices for religious purposes? What did you learn from it?

Considering how hard it is today to actually engage in battle, it has quite a bit of purpose. I've got cuts all over my torso, some self-inflicted & the others by my Thing. Shedding blood(man & beast) is important. Especially so for oath & loyalty.

 

[Tumah]

Such practices go back to the Israelites, who also did things like wear sackcloth and ashes as a form of penance.

Sackcloth and ashes is a sign of mourning, not penance.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sackcloth and ashes is a sign of mourning, not penance.

It was used for both reasons.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

I, and my religion, regard it as barbarous. Who in their right mind would worship a god who wants people to suffer? But there's a lot of it about: Christian asceticism, some Muslims, Hinduism (although it's condemned in the Bhagavad Gita).

 

[Levite]

Self-harm is a controversial topic, in just about any context. It is typically assumed to be universally bad in my culture, and is also seen as symptomatic of mental illness or deviancy in general. However, in spite of these associations, self-harm has been used as a religious practice for various purposes for a very long time. The experience of pain can serve to facilitate mystical experiences or to revel in the sensuality of being alive. It may also be used as a way of honoring what is sacred to a religion, as an offering of personal suffering to affirm dedication. There are other roles self-harm may serve as well within the context of religion, and it is my hope that we can explore these possibilities in this discussion. Although my preference is for discussion rather than debate, I understand the nature of this topic invites debate, so I have placed it in a debate subforum.

What do you think about self-harm in general? For religious purposes, specifically?

What roles do you envision self-harming playing as a religious practice? How could it be beneficial? Or perhaps you see it as universally bad? If so, why?

Have you ever engaged in self-harm practices for religious purposes? What did you learn from it?

(this thread is at least in part inspired by National Geographic's "Taboo" series and episodes like this one, which is just amazingly fascinating to me... perhaps because I am a weirdo)

DISCLAIMER: please use common sense, guys; the intent of this thread is not to advocate or endorse self-harm in the context of mental illness, much less suicide. If you're mentally ill, get help!

Generally speaking, self-harm is prohibited in Judaism. I suppose technically a case could be made that, since we have fast days (total fast, not even drinking water), those could be construed as self-harm; but since our laws state that on such days, if a person becomes ill through fasting, they must break their fast to drink and/or eat, even that doesn't seen like much of an exception,

We just don't have a theology of harm, or a ritual valuation of needless suffering. Generally speaking, though our tradition provides tools for dealing with the inevitable griefs and woes of life, we tend to believe God wants us to be happy, safe, and healthy.

 

[Jainarayan]

Especially so for oath & loyalty.

Not to mention Odin spearing himself to Yggdrasil. That had to hurt.

 

[Quintessence]

I, and my religion, regard it as barbarous. Who in their right mind would worship a god who wants people to suffer?

That's not quite what I had in mind in considering self-harm. That's certainly one aspect of it, I suppose, but religious self-harm does not at all have to be connected to theism at all, much less gods whose domains include things that are adversarial to human proclivities. Pain is a teacher, and it reminds us that we're alive. The experience can be seen as having value in of itself, independent of any connection (or lack thereof) to gods and spirits.

People who understand that the gods don't revolve around humans, can, and do worship gods that "want" people to suffer (though "want" is probably the wrong term; it'd be more accurate to say they cause that which we label as "suffering"). But that is probably a topic for an entirely different thread.

 

[raph]

I think that self harm can cause disattachement to the material world, which is good. But in my opinion, there are better ways, to reach such a goal. Fasting, charity, prayer, meditation or work have the same or even a better effect, and are better for a society. I think, sacrificing one self in charity work, is a better sacrifice than self hurting, because it is the same thing, but brings forth better fruits.

 

[metis]

Generally speaking, self-harm is prohibited in Judaism. I suppose technically a case could be made that, since we have fast days (total fast, not even drinking water), those could be construed as self-harm; but since our laws state that on such days, if a person becomes ill through fasting, they must break their fast to drink and/or eat, even that doesn't seen like much of an exception,

Because of my vintage and the fact that I'm a Type-2 diabetic (barely), when I've asked my rabbi in the past if I can fast on YK, I got an emphatic "No!". At the beginning of Kol Nidre, he mentions that it one is in poor health or subject to any kind of problem if they were to fast, they must not do so.

BTW, why is it called a "fast" whereas when one is observing as such time goes by oh so slow?

Shabbat shalom

 

[Erebus]

Interesting thread! I've long been a supporter of using blood for both worship and spellwork. There's no need to cause more damage than a small cut or pinprick in my mind though, the fact that blood has been shed is enough. There are a few reasons I support the practice, the first one being that it's considered taboo. I consider the breaking of certain cultural taboos to be a useful means of identifying where your own moral compass and limits lie. There's also something primal about breaking this particular taboo. We've become a soulless, bland society in my eyes and to engage in something that's considered as primitive and distasteful as blood sacrifice is cathartic.
Secondly, for me it feels more sincere to offer blood than food, alcohol, herbs etc. To put it simply, if I'm not willing to lose a few measly drops of blood then how invested in my practices can I really be?
Finally, blood contains power. I don't particularly want to dwell on how or why it does, to do so would be to miss the point in my opinion.

 

[sojourner]

Generally speaking, self-harm is prohibited in Judaism. I suppose technically a case could be made that, since we have fast days (total fast, not even drinking water), those could be construed as self-harm; but since our laws state that on such days, if a person becomes ill through fasting, they must break their fast to drink and/or eat, even that doesn't seen like much of an exception,

We just don't have a theology of harm, or a ritual valuation of needless suffering. Generally speaking, though our tradition provides tools for dealing with the inevitable griefs and woes of life, we tend to believe God wants us to be happy, safe, and healthy.

Not to be snarky or contrary, but I'd be seriously interested to know if the one exception to that might be circumcision? Is that considered harm?