Self, Son of Man, and Glorification of God

[Truth in love]

It Invalides all who call, sustain, and support leaders. It Invalides any supposed authority anyone claims... I now associate that feeling - what you call the spirit - as what it really is. Animal herd instincts, chemicals, nothing more.

Okay so if I run an organization lie PETA and I expressly forbid the eating of animals or the use of anything that comes from an animal and you agree to this. Then after many years and many time you have reaffirmed your commitment to not harm an animal you go hunting its PETA's fault?

 

[idea]

Okay so if I run an organization lie PETA and I expressly forbid the eating of animals or the use of anything that comes from an animal and you agree to this. Then after many years and many time you have reaffirmed your commitment to not harm an animal you go hunting its PETA's fault?

The Mormon church was founded by adulterous pedophiles, who took child brides. Warren Jeffs understood what that church was founded on. I should have seen it sooner, it should not have required sitting in detectives office, iding kids. Year after year after year, calling after calling, child after child. No one stopped it. My case isn't the only one. You might not understand what it is, to take your child to doctor.. to take your child to therapist.. to know that child will never have a normal family, that you will not have grandchildren. To pull them through eating disorders. To pull them through cutting. To keep them alive when they try to kill themselves... and to do it alone - to have all those you served with turn their back, accuse, shun. I had to find my own authority. My kids are alive because I claimed my own authority.

 

[Truth in love]

The Mormon church was founded by adulterous pedophiles, who took child brides. Warren Jeffs understood what that church was founded on. I should have seen it sooner, it should not have required sitting in detectives office, iding kids. Year after year after year, calling after calling, child after child. No one stopped it. My case isn't the only one. You might not understand what it is, to take your child to doctor.. to take your child to therapist.. to know that child will never have a normal family, that you will not have grandchildren. To pull them through eating disorders. To pull them through cutting. To keep them alive when they try to kill themselves... and to do it alone - to have all those you served with turn their back, accuse, shun. I had to find my own authority. My kids are alive because I claimed my own authority.

I wish we had this discussion back in the spring I can always use some pure Bull Crap in the garden.

 

[Fool]

I don’t worship mortals. I respect many.

Principles matter, but they don’t replace God

god is a verb first, an action. it's only a thing secondary

exodus 3:14

that is how god answered moses when he asked for a name. moses got a verb

 

[Fool]

I wish we had this discussion back in the spring I can always use some pure Bull Crap in the garden.

the mormon church like so many, just this summer the baptist convention, finally acknowledged their church had been allowing sexual abuse to flourish. making a name for oneselves doesn't override the principles that must be followed. unfortunately this is what service to self types do, me and mine are better than you or yours. they wend their way into all kinds of places of authority that have failed to humble themselves


god doesn't dwell in houses made of hands


phhhtttt


babylon, the mother of all harlotries(idolatries) is fallen

 

[Truth in love]

the mormon church like so many, just this summer the baptist convention, finally acknowledged their church had been allowing sexual abuse to flourish. making a name for oneselves doesn't override the principles that must be followed. unfortunately this is what service to self types do, me and mine are better than you or yours. they wend their way into all kinds of places of authority that have failed to humble themselves


god doesn't dwell in houses made of hands


phhhtttt


babylon, the mother of all harlotries(idolatries) is fallen

The church has not eliminated abuse (like every other church, government, school and bear hall) This is very different from it being founded on and supporting the abuse.

 

[Fool]

The church has not eliminated abuse (like every other church, government, school and bear hall) This is very different from it being founded on and supporting the abuse.

this is why christ is the teacher and not some external church. the authority is with the person and in no other place. one has the authority over one's own body/temple, not another

 

[Truth in love]

this is why christ is the teacher and not some external church. the authority is with the person and in no other place. one has the authority over one's own body/temple, not another

If He did want an “external church” He should have not set on up.

 

[Fool]

If He did want an “external church” He should have not set on up.

he sent each one out into the world. he didn't tell them to remain as a group and lord over one another. each was required to serve one another. he didn't issue any kind of idea of someone being an authority over another.


matthew 20:25-28


a minister is one who serves, aids, helps and not one who sits in authority.

 

[Truth in love]

he sent each one out into the world. he didn't tell them to remain as a group and lord over one another. each was required to serve one another. he didn't issue any kind of idea of someone being an authority over another.


matthew 20:25-26


a minister is one who serves, aids, helps and not one who sits in authority.

Service matters this does not mean there is no valid authority.

 

[Fool]

Service matters this does not mean there is no valid authority.

i didn't say there wasn't an authority. i said each person is the authority over there own body. the body is the temple of the indwelling spirit. christi is all and in all. so no one calling themselves the grand poobah of what ever outward church is the authority over anything but themselves. christ is the authority.


if anyone else wishes to abdicate their authority to some ego thats their authority to do so, but then you can't blame them for messing up your life.

 

[Truth in love]

i didn't say there wasn't an authority. i said each person is the authority over there own body. the body is the temple of the indwelling spirit. christi is all and in all. so no one calling themselves the grand poobah of what ever outward church is the authority over anything but themselves. christ is the authority.


if anyone else wishes to abdicate their authority to some ego thats their authority to do so, but then you can't blame them for messing up your life.

Yeah so that way authority works in the church is different from government and business. Christ is the source of authority and people are given some in order to serve and to grow.

 

[Fool]

Yeah so that way authority works in the church is different from government and business. Christ is the source of authority and people are given some in order to serve and to grow.

some people join groups because they're ego maniacs, narcissistic and love the limelight. the profile on pedophiles includes usually being a member of a religious group/order.

psychopaths like positions of authority. to many are afraid to question authority. jesus wasn't afraid of taking questions. most preachers don't teach the way jesus did. openly taking questions

 

[idea]

some people join groups because they're ego maniacs, narcissistic and love the limelight. the profile on pedophiles includes usually being a member of a religious group/order.

psychopaths like positions of authority. to many are afraid to question authority. jesus wasn't afraid of taking questions. most preachers don't teach the way jesus did. openly taking questions

Yes. The NT apostles could not walk on water, couldn't always help people, pushed kids away, couldn't stay awake one hour.... they admitted this, wrote it down, were constantly apologizing and correcting mistakes.

I wish we had this discussion back in the spring I can always use some pure Bull Crap in the garden.

Above is an example of the response I had from many who I used to think were friends. For others going through this, know help comes outside of the church. The church protects itself, not your kids, and will do all in its power to hide, deny, dismiss, and condemn victims.

Find a detective, therapist, doctor, lawyers - all need to be completely independent from the church, and completely independent from the predator. Many predators seem the kindest, most caring, loving people around - they are so excited to work with children, are always ready to volunteer, are respected and beloved leaders to their congregation. Picture in your mind - your dad /brother /grandfather... whom you love, then someone accuses them of abuse. - of course you do not believe the victim.

I was lucky, he videotaped what he did. A single flash drive was all it took. Know most are never convicted, it takes very solid evidence you have to collect yourself.

Many call it midlife crisis - some event shatters your world, you find yourself alone (others unable to offer any real help), necessity dictates you find your own inner strength, and by the end you are your own authority.

 

[Truth in love]

some people join groups because they're ego maniacs, narcissistic and love the limelight. the profile on pedophiles includes usually being a member of a religious group/order.

psychopaths like positions of authority. to many are afraid to question authority. jesus wasn't afraid of taking questions. most preachers don't teach the way jesus did. openly taking questions

Preachers run the gambit some are very loving and dedicated others a jerks.

I like taking questions when I teach. That said spending all day long with a troll (not implying you are one) is very distracting from getting anything taught.

It does not always work.

There are several things that Christ did that I think are very useful
Taking questions, asking people to rise above their current level of behavior and extending mercy to those who error.

One of the toughest calls in a class, church, group home or work setting is when to cut off a troublesome person. On the one hand a lot of patience might help them grow on the other hand they may do harm.

A nice bit about a lay ministry is that there is not making it rich off the collection plate. People serve with payment in congregations all over the world.

 

[Truth in love]

Yes. The NT apostles could not walk on water, couldn't always help people, pushed kids away, couldn't stay awake one hour.... they admitted this, wrote it down, were constantly apologizing and correcting mistakes.



Above is an example of the response I had from many who I used to think were friends. For others going through this, know help comes outside of the church. The church protects itself, not your kids, and will do all in its power to hide, deny, dismiss, and condemn victims.

Find a detective, therapist, doctor, lawyers - all need to be completely independent from the church, and completely independent from the predator. Many predators seem the kindest, most caring, loving people around - they are so excited to work with children, are always ready to volunteer, are respected and beloved leaders to their congregation. Picture in your mind - your dad /brother /grandfather... whom you love, then someone accuses them of abuse. - of course you do not believe the victim.

I was lucky, he videotaped what he did. A single flash drive was all it took. Know most are never convicted, it takes very solid evidence you have to collect yourself.

Many call it midlife crisis - some event shatters your world, you find yourself alone (others unable to offer any real help), necessity dictates you find your own inner strength, and by the end you are your own authority.

Crud happens. Wish that was not the case, but it is. I am a therapist and have worked with both sexual offenders and victims. This sad reality does not support your assertions about the entire church and its founding.

 

[Fool]

Preachers run the gambit some are very loving and dedicated others a jerks.

I like taking questions when I teach. That said spending all day long with a troll (not implying you are one) is very distracting from getting anything taught.

It does not always work.

There are several things that Christ did that I think are very useful
Taking questions, asking people to rise above their current level of behavior and extending mercy to those who error.

One of the toughest calls in a class, church, group home or work setting is when to cut off a troublesome person. On the one hand a lot of patience might help them grow on the other hand they may do harm.

A nice bit about a lay ministry is that there is not making it rich off the collection plate. People serve with payment in congregations all over the world.

the overall problem is power. you can't serve power and love.

so unlike many preachers, jesus referred to his disciples as friends. he made them equals. i've never met a preacher who understand that his job is to be a mentor and pass the torch. when jesus asked peter if he loved him and peter responded yes, he then told him to feed his lambs = arnion = christs.

john 21:15

 

[Truth in love]

the overall problem is power. you can't serve power and love.

so unlike many preachers, jesus referred to his disciples as friends. he made them equals. i've never met a preacher who understand that his job is to be a mentor and pass the torch. when jesus asked peter if he loved him and peter responded yes, he then told him to feed his lambs = arnion = christs.

john 21:15

We could spend weeks on power.

In short I think power can be based on love or fear. Fear is in the dark side.


I wish you could meet my bishop. He puts in 10-20 hours a week (on top of his regular job). Remembers all the youths birthdays (like 80+ of them) and pays them a personal visit, take them camping, pitches in to do yard work for widows.
Looks after the sick and elderly reaches out to the hurt and angry. It’s a beautiful thing to see.

He serves with no pay. He might serve another year or ten. His next calling might be to preside over a dozen congregations or he might help watch the 2 year olds while their parents attend a class.

The living reality of what I see each week is very close to what I hear you and others saying it ought to be.

 

[idea]

Crud happens. Wish that was not the case, but it is. I am a therapist and have worked with both sexual offenders and victims. This sad reality does not support your assertions about the entire church and its founding.

There are a few, who from 132, justify/prepare themselves for polygammy. Joseph Smith did "marry" children, although I do not define marriage in that way, and do not view what happened in the early church as marriage.

The church has many therapists whose goal is to minimize, hide, and cover abuse - which is why we found our own non-affiliated therapists. We specifically requested an athiest therapist, and now have two very special people who helped us all through so much.

Religious ideas of sacrifice can be good, and can also be evil. From Catholics who flagellate themselves, to Mormon women who normalize abuse from father growing up, then husband after marriage. Staying in abusive situations, without calling police, is seen as being faithful to covenants. The wife of the man we put in jail is still his wife. She sees breaking marriage vows as going against God. His mother was also abused growing up. She too, saw it as a test, a sacrifice, and normalized her son's behavior. They all visit him in jail, and think it unfair. It ended his first temple marriage, and the family had all believing the first wife was to blame. His second temple marriage was to current wife, who victim herself, watched as child after child was abused and did nothing. He had calling after calling, was in newspapers from boy scout calling, was in bishopric - all despite being in church's addiction recovery support group. The church knew. Knew why first marriage ended. Knew what was said in support groups. No one reported anything. It's all praise and hugs and support to those in addiction support groups, and avoidance / silence towards victims. You can count the number of groups- how many support groups for pedophiles, and how many support groups for victims. This was a few years ago - at the time, very few groups for "friends and family of addicts" - you were not allowed to call yourself a victim - you were a "friend of addict" - it all centered on the addict - not on helping anyone else.

Making prophets God- making men "authority", worshipping arms of flesh - the lds offshoots are fruit from the lds tree.

 

[Truth in love]

There are a few, who from 132, justify/prepare themselves for polygammy. Joseph Smith did "marry" children, although I do not define marriage in that way, and do not view what happened in the early church as marriage.

The church has many therapists whose goal is to minimize, hide, and cover abuse - which is why we found our own non-affiliated therapists. We specifically requested an athiest therapist, and now have two very special people who helped us all through so much.

Religious ideas of sacrifice can be good, and can also be evil. From Catholics who flagellate themselves, to Mormon women who normalize abuse from father growing up, then husband after marriage. Staying in abusive situations, without calling police, is seen as being faithful to covenants. The wife of the man we put in jail is still his wife. She sees breaking marriage vows as going against God. His mother was also abused growing up. She too, saw it as a test, a sacrifice, and normalized her son's behavior. They all visit him in jail, and think it unfair. It ended his first temple marriage, and the family had all believing the first wife was to blame. His second temple marriage was to current wife, who victim herself, watched as child after child was abused and did nothing. He had calling after calling, was in newspapers from boy scout calling, was in bishopric - all despite being in church's addiction recovery support group. The church knew. Knew why first marriage ended. Knew what was said in support groups. No one reported anything. It's all praise and hugs and support to those in addiction support groups, and avoidance / silence towards victims. You can count the number of groups- how many support groups for pedophiles, and how many support groups for victims. This was a few years ago - at the time, very few groups for "friends and family of addicts" - you were not allowed to call yourself a victim - you were a "friend of addict" - it all centered on the addict - not on helping anyone else.

Making prophets God- making men "authority", worshipping arms of flesh - the lds offshoots are fruit from the lds tree.

I cannot speak to how a persons lives their life, but I find no support in the church teachings, policies etc for accepting abuse, covering up abuse etc. Yes at times it happens, the church condemns murder that does not mean no one who attends has violated that commandment. Accepting this reality is quite different from pretending that the church teaches or endorses murder.


that the culturally acceptable age of marriage 150 years ago was lower then today does not mean an evil or criminal thing occurred. A lot of things are different in different cultures.