Self understanding

[Master Vigil]

Perception of the outside world may or may not be true. How do we know that the floor is hard, or the air is cold, or water ripples? 8) How does the understanding of the self lead to the understanding of the rest of the world?

 

[Master Vigil]

Perception of the outside world may or may not be true. How do we know that the floor is hard, or the air is cold, or water ripples? 8) How does the understanding of the self lead to the understanding of the rest of the world?

 

[Hairetikos]

I feel that there is a time and a place for everything. Beliefs and theories are tools that I use to gain one advantage or another.

What I'm trying to say is that sometimes it's more beneficial for me to view my hard floor as actually being a hard floor, while at other times it's more beneficial to view it as something other then what I percieve it to be.

As for what's True and what isn't...well, I really don't care at this point in my life. It's more useful for me to utilize that which produces the desired results rather then to use that which I see as being Truth. After all, the Truth might not work to my advantage (and I realize that in the eyes of a Taoist this is probably a very crude and/or ignorant statement, but so be it).

Ending notes: This little rant of mine might not be very Taoistic, but it makes sense to me nonetheless. Also, I just finished reading the Tao Te Ching and Chaung-tzu about two or three days ago. I'm obviously no expert on Taoism, but I at least have a foundational understanding of the path. Very enlightening texts, I'd recommend them to anyone, regardless of one's religious influences.

 

[Master Vigil]

Its true, your rant is not traditionally very taoist. However, the way of the Tao in my opinion can be sought within one's self and therefore change for the person. But how can one say what is beneficial when the truth of it benefits are not known? The point of my question was, how do we wake up in the morning, and know when we get out of bed there will be a floor to hold us up? And how can first knowing one's self help us know the rest of the universe?

 

[Francine]

Its true, your rant is not traditionally very taoist.

Sometimes nature itself rants, we call this a storm. Calm weather and storms are guided by Tao. How can it be otherwise?

 

[methylatedghosts]

How do we know that the floor is hard, or the air is cold, or water ripples?

Our relationship to it?

 

[Somkid]

I solve this for you very easily, give me your money and if I'm not real I won't take it on the other hand you will stop questioning what is real and what is not that applies to the senses.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Master vigil,
Understanding the self is understanding the true nature of things.
Like first when we do not know mountains are mountains. When we start knowing it is mountains are not mountains. when we have known the mountains are again mountains.
That is the true nature of things or knwing the self.
Love & rgds

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Master Vigil said

Perception of the outside world may or may not be true. How do we know that the floor is hard, or the air is cold, or water ripples? 8) How does the understanding of the self lead to the understanding of the rest of the world?

There are certain assumptions here that require addressing before the specifics of the question can be dealt with properly.
First we need to find out 'what' we are as a prerequisite to asking the next question of 'who' we are.
It reminds me of the age old question of..'which comes first, the chicken or the egg?'.
Has that question ever received a defintive answer?

Ben D.

 

[zenzero]

Friend ben d,

There are certain assumptions here that require addressing before the specifics of the question can be dealt with properly.
First we need to find out 'what' we are as a prerequisite to asking the next question of 'who' we are.
It reminds me of the age old question of..'which comes first, the chicken or the egg?'.
Has that question ever received a defintive answer?

You are correct that one should know what he is. The answere is like all elements our body too is made of atoms [protons/neutrons] electricity in a way. It is not solid. The subtle end of us which is called a soul too is the same thing *Energy*. Soul is like vapour as body is like water One gross the other its subtle side. Like light and darkness, they are just the two ends of athe same pole.
One cannot have a single pole. Cut a magnet into two again the two poles will appear.
Love & rgds

 

[Godfather89]

Old saying in Heremeticism: As Above, So Below -- As Within, So Without

We are the microcosm of the universe, all that which is exist in us... What we come from is the Macrocosm of Everything. We contain the universe within ourselves and yet we are contained by the universe itself.

So I ask you, do you believe that we have uncovered everything about the universe? If your answer is what I think it is than imagine how much we have to learn about ourselves...

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Old saying in Heremeticism: As Above, So Below -- As Within, So Without

We are the microcosm of the universe, all that which is exist in us... What we come from is the Macrocosm of Everything. We contain the universe within ourselves and yet we are contained by the universe itself.

So I ask you, do you believe that we have uncovered everything about the universe? If your answer is what I think it is than imagine how much we have to learn about ourselves...

We are the universe experiencing itself.

 

[Francine]

We are the universe experiencing itself.

We are the universe wasting time on the computer with empty pizza boxes strewn about.

 

[Willamena]

Perception of the outside world may or may not be true. How do we know that the floor is hard, or the air is cold, or water ripples?

I know it's an old post, but I would reply that the question is backwards. That the floor is hard is our knowing of it; that the air is cold is our knowing of it; that the water ripples is our knowing of it. How can it then be not true?

 

[zenzero]

Friend Willamena,
What appears as solid or liquid is not so as if they are broken down into will appear as atoms which are moving particles of energy. Finally everything is a flow which comes out of Nothingness and goes back to it.
likewise when each one of us becomes a flow we can say to have crossed the stage where mountains are mountains and again can see mountains as mountains but in between the stage comes where mountains are not mountains but atoms.
That is thr truth.
Love & rgds

 

[Willamena]

Finally everything is a flow which comes out of Nothingness and goes back to it.

Even so, how is it untrue whatever way we break it down (know it)?

 

[zenzero]

Friend willamena,

Even so, how is it untrue whatever way we break it down (know it)?

Do not know the understanding of your question is correct. If you wish to state that finally *WE* do not have the knowledge of things?
Yes, when you become *THAT* itself then the distinction is lost between the Knower and the Known. So finally one is not there to know.
Love & rgds

 

[Todros]

All sounds interesting but all still confusing. Perhaps its the questions that keep us from the answers. I read a quote from an old teacher; "what I can tell you may be worth a shekel; but what I do not tell you will be worth two" Acceptance is what gives one the truth not question.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Todros,
Yes, you are absolutly right.
The same is the reason that buddha himself said that he does not teach any dharma; but still thousand thronged himeverywhere.
The importance of being directly under a live master is the same as what you have read; its worth two shekels.
Love & rgds

 

[Willamena]

Friend willamena,
Do not know the understanding of your question is correct. If you wish to state that finally *WE* do not have the knowledge of things?
Yes, when you become *THAT* itself then the distinction is lost between the Knower and the Known. So finally one is not there to know.
Love & rgds

Sorry I didn't reply earlier.
I think that is what I was asking, yes, although I wouldn't have thought of it quite that way. Thank you for the reply (and frubals). It was helpful.