Self

[Master Vigil]

Do we possess a self?

 

[godischange]

What do you mean a self? As in a soul, a spirit? In that case yes, I believe we all have an essence of our characteristics that makes up our souls. Inside it are our deepest desires and wishes, hopes and dreams, inveloped forever in a flowing ball of energy that will survive any tradgety if given the tinest glint of hope.

At least, that's how I imagine it.

 

[Sunstone]

It seems to me that our sense of self originates with our consciousness.

 

[anders]

To me, there is no "self", much less a "soul", outside the molecules of my body.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I agree with anders. What is the Taoist view on this?

 

[Master Vigil]

The reason for my question was the idea of identity. Are we really a separate being (completely) than everything else? We are a part of humans, humans are a part of animals, animals are a part of nature, nature is a part of the universe. Are we really a completely distinct entity outside of the whole? Or the tao? A taoist would say no. (or most philosophical ones would)

 

[Hirohito18200]

I liken our brains to programing code. (this is java in case u didn't know) Our experiences and such give us our definitions, and develop our constructor. Our task is based on the conditions presented by our environment. So our 'self' is our own unique code with our own variables. But like code, its just data, electronic impulses, nothing eternal or anything like that...
I just thought of that I haven't really decided where I am on that one lol
I should just debate myself one of these days...

 

[Master Vigil]

Think of it like this, even if you have an identity or self, it is not infinite. It changes so quickly that it cannot be permanent. You do not look like you did as a child, nor do you act the way you did 2 years ago. You change, could someone you haven't seen in 25 years still recognize you? Without telling them your name I mean. Probably not, and once you die, you will erode and decay and no longer be human at all. So what is your identity?

 

[Soul Shinobi]

I find this most interesting:

A few years ago, I had a shock when my cat Néné died. There was a hole in my heart, a hole that could not be filled, even though a new cat, Mina, came along. I started to wonder why. Why can't one cat replace another? And I started to think that the 'I' is not just one person, but the sum of everything you love - your dog, your wife, your child, your computer, your doll. This led me to the conclusion that the self is empty. What is essential is this network of connections.

Mamoru Oshii is a Japanese director, famous for the deeply psychological sci-fi animé Ghost in the Shell and Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence (in theaters now in major cites). I feel this man is truly brilliant. ^_^

“Although the Wachowski brothers wanted to make a live-action version of an animé film [Ghost in the Shell], the best animé directors are driven by concerns deeper, wilder, and altogether more idiosyncratic than those taken up in The Matrix.” –Charles C. Mann, contributing writer to WIRED.

“The ideas of Innocence director Mamoru Oshii can be especially head-spinning. The Ghost in the Shell sequel may look like your basic sex-and-violence-soaked cartoon cyberpunk noir, but underneath the gaudy splatter lies a somber meditation on what it means to be human at a time when machines are assuming more and more of the characteristics once thought to be exclusive property of Homo sapiens.” –Charles C. Mann.

 

[anders]

Think of it like this, even if you have an identity or self, it is not infinite. It changes so quickly that it cannot be permanent. You do not look like you did as a child, nor do you act the way you did 2 years ago. You change, could someone you haven't seen in 25 years still recognize you? Without telling them your name I mean. Probably not, and once you die, you will erode and decay and no longer be human at all. So what is your identity?

How true! And that, at the risk of straying off topic, is one of my main problems with the Christian resurrection and afterlife. Who is being resurrected? Will you even regognize yourself?

 

[oisin3]

How true. And all the religions on the earth will be meanless. In the next century there shall be no religions. I wonder what they will fight over then?

 

[Runt]

Self? Hmm... well, I am personally of the opinion that a human is no more than a bundle of atoms that have been arranged in such a way as to compose the physiology required to have a series of chemical interactions that we call "consciousness". The "Self", as far as I can tell, is supposed to be the little bit of us that is non-material. Now, concepts are also nonmaterial and yet are considered to nevertheless exist (think of imaginary numbers... we can use them and anyone who has had at least high school math will say that they exist, but we can't hand one another 3i strawberries), and the Self is basically a concept... so in that sense, yes, the self exists as much as any concept created by the mind (whether it be mathematics or unicorns) can exist. But does it have any reality beyond our mind? No, I don't think so. If we take away the body that gives rises to the concept of Self, then there is no Self.

 

[Michelle]

Now seems a good time to say that free will ( a self) cannot exist in a pre-determined universe.

 

[Master Vigil]

The Tao does not make everything pre-determined. That implies that some omniscient being plans everything out before hand. But the Tao would not plan, it would just be. And by just being, causes everything. So we do nothing, it is the Tao.