Sense of the Atheism

[Evangelicalhumanist]

DEFINITION
"Atheism is in the broadest sense an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities." (Wikipedia 2021 with references).

MAKING SENSE OF THE DEFINITION
I think, it is an unnecessary complication, which was absent just some 30 years ago. Why? Because the atheists admire Evolution, then their doctrine has undergone severe evolution from simplicity into a complication.

Let us translate into common sense what the phrase "Atheism is in the broadest sense an absence of belief in the existence of deities." means.

This can mean three things:

A. Certainty and conviction, that the True God does not exist (gnostic atheism).

B. Assumption, that there is no True God, but without knowledge of it (agnostic atheism).

C. Religious Indifference.

In all these cases, it is the rejection of being the theist, rejection of the God-idea (shortly: the rejection of God).

It is ridiculous to assert that an easily-understood phrase like "an absence of belief in the existence of deities" is equivalent to any of your three given "meanings." Absence of belief is NEVER certainy and conviction, nor is it an assumption, nor does it even imply indifference. I, for example, lack a belief in the existence of deities, and yet I remain interested in religion as an important part of human culture.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That because my paper about Dark Matter is not published.
Dark Matter as Simulation of E.Musk


Yes, please read.

I read. It will never be published. At least not in a real science organ.

 

[Kfox]

Skepticism is both reasonable and healthy. But it's not atheism.

Skepticism is to doubt a claim. If a person doubts all religious claims, how is that different than atheism?

Many theists are also skeptical.

True! Theists are skeptical of all religious claims other than their own.

 

[questfortruth]

I read. It will never be published. At least not in a real science organ.

But I have proof of the Riemann Hypothesis. If I get recognized as a world-famous Mathematician, I bet the Dark Matter paper will be reconsidered.

 

[Kfox]

If there were even 10 000 True Gods, I am right that atheists reject True God.

I've never heard of an atheist actually rejecting any God; true or not, they only reject claims theists make of God/Gods.

 

[questfortruth]

It is ridiculous to assert that an easily-understood phrase like "an absence of belief in the existence of deities" is equivalent to any of your three given "meanings."

I have an analytic brain. Any phrase, if it has meaning, has consequences.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I have an analytic brain. Any phrase, if it has meaning, has consequences.

Just not the consequences you imagine. A rolling billiard ball hitting another will have consequences, but among those is not turning into a rabbit

 

[questfortruth]

an easily-understood phrase like "an absence of belief in the existence of deities"

You simply say: atheism is not theism.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Skepticism is to doubt a claim. If a person doubts all religious claims, how is that different than atheism?

Theist: I believe God exist

Skeptic: I question my belief that God could exists

Atheist: I don't believe God exist

Agnostic: I give up! I don't and couldn't know either way

-
If you're questioning a claim, you're a skeptic. It's alright to be a skeptic or agnostic. Many atheists and their counterparts aren't skeptics we just believe God exists or he doesn't. But spirituality isn't a cookie cutter, so

 

[PureX]

Skepticism is to doubt a claim. If a person doubts all religious claims, how is that different than atheism?

Doubt is not a conceptual position. Doubt is not a determination. Doubt is just doubt. Nothing more. Atheism is the counter-position to theism. Atheism IS a position. It is the anti-position to the assertion of the existence of God. It is the position that the assertion that God exists, is wrong. That's not skepticism. That's not non-determination. That's determined negation.

True! Theists are skeptical of all religious claims other than their own.

They are also very often skeptical of their own gods. That's why most theists call it a matter of faith, and not knowledge.

 

[Kfox]

Theist: I believe God exist

Skeptic: I question my belief that God could exists

Atheist: I don't believe God exist

Agnostic: I give up! I don't and couldn't know either way

*The skeptic will question YOUR belief concerning God; not his own.
*The Atheist can’t state a belief until the God in question is described, because many things/beings theists call God DO indeed exist, but the atheist will not call them God, but something else.
*The Agnostic makes the claim that nobody can know; not just himself.

 

[Kfox]

Doubt is not a conceptual position.

Neither is Atheism

Doubt is not a determination.

Neither is Atheism

Doubt is just doubt. Nothing more. Atheism is the counter-position to theism. Atheism IS a position.

No; Atheism is the default position

It is the anti-position to the assertion of the existence of God.

Anti-Position? How is that different than the Default position?

It is the position that the assertion that God exists, is wrong.

No it’s not, because many atheists acknowledge what some people choose to call God does exist! It would be foolish to claim the Sun does not exist because there are those who choose to call it God; now wouldn’t it. As an Atheist, I acknowledge the Sun exist, but I don’t call it God, I call it a star.

They are also very often skeptical of their own gods. That's why most theists call it a matter of faith, and not knowledge.

Most Theists I know claim to KNOW that their idea of God exists. They claim to have a personal relationship with said God and have experienced his existence personally. The faith they have is in things concerning their God that they don't have a personal experience; thus they believe it via faith.

 

[PureX]

Neither is Atheism

Atheism is the conceptual position that God/gods don't exist. Skepticism is just skepticism. Skepticism is not a position. It's just a state of non-determination prior to taking a position. But I can see that you're going to fight this no matter how illogical that fight is.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

the atheists admire Evolution, then their doctrine has undergone severe evolution from simplicity into a complication.

There is no atheist doctrine. As you noted, atheism is the absence of belief. Any other ideas the atheist holds do not derive from his atheism, because no idea derives from unbelief in gods. Atheism derives from skepticism and the lack of compelling evidence for a god, and nothing derives from that position. Maybe he's also an antitheist - someone who considers the church a net societal harm and prefers it be disempowered. That idea comes from observing the church, not the belief that no adequate case for a god has been made.

Nobody can argue, that these gods (Egyptian, Hebrew, African, Greek, whatever) are present on our Earth. Are you saying, that they are somehow false ones?

Nobody need argue or agree. If you are talking about the concept of these god, yes, they exist in some minds, my own included. If you're talking about the referent of that idea, the actual god out there to which idea refers, then there is no reason to believe that they exist. Please note that this is not saying that they do not or cannot actually exist, but simply that there is no reason to believe so at this time

You simply say: atheism is not theism.

If one uses the broadest definition of atheist you included, then everybody is an atheist or a theist, and nobody is bot - MECE (mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive).

Skepticism is both reasonable and healthy. But it's not atheism

But it leads to atheism. There is no other rational position for a skeptic.

Many theists are also skeptical.

Not about their god beliefs. If they were, they wouldn't be theists. They'd be atheists.

Atheism is the conceptual position that God/gods don't exist.

Not to me.

 

[questfortruth]

That's why most theists call it a matter of faith, and not knowledge.

Is Christian God just one of the unbelievers? Is satan of the Bible the believer?

 

[Kfox]

Atheism is the conceptual position that God/gods don't exist. .

Atheism applies to ALL God claims; not just yours. Does the Sun exist? Does Nature exist? There are theists who call these things God. There are Theists who call people as real as you and I God. Halle Selassie (previous president of Ethiopia) was considered a Deity by a sect of Rastafarian. Kamari of Nepal is considered deity by Hindu. (Halle died in the 1970’s but Kumari is still alive today) these people are as real as you and I, the fact that there are those who choose to call them God does not mean they never existed. The idea that in order for someone to be Atheist they must claim everything someone chooses to call God does not exist is absurd.

But I can see that you're going to fight this no matter how illogical that fight is.

I'm not here to fight you, I'm trying to understand you; and hopefully we can understand each other. Does what I say make sense to you? If not, tell me where I've gone wrong.

 

[questfortruth]

Nobody need argue or agree.

That's not skepticism. That's not non-determination. That's determined negation.

Dear Christian, we are outnumbered here! Run. Run, you clever boy!

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If there were even 10 000 True Gods, I am right that atheists reject True God.

I'd need to know what you mean by 'True Gods'.
And even defining it in terms of there being potentially 10,000 really just speaks to polytheism in addition to monotheism.
Regardless, my point remains. Atheists aren't even aware of all the God-beliefs that exist. Neither are theists, for that matter. We're not explicitly rejecting each God. That's not possible.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

This can mean three things:

A.

B.

C. Religious Indifference.

In all these cases, it is the rejection of being the theist, rejection of the God-idea (shortly: the rejection of God).

I'm completely confused by this post, so can't really address your comments.
Why are points A and B completely blank? Is it an omission by accident? Confused.

 

[blü 2]

In all these cases, it is the rejection of being the theist, rejection of the God-notion (shortly: the rejection of God).

If you're talking about real gods, ones with objective existence, I haven't got up to that part yet.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what a real god is, such that if we find a real suspect we can determine whether it's God or not.