Sentiment

[SoliDeoGloria]

Here is a telling quote from Thomas Nagel, Atheist, and professor of philosophy at New York University, in his work "The Last Word" (p. 130):

" In speaking of the fear of religion, I don't mean to refer to the entirely reasonalble hostility toward certain established religions...in virtue of their objectionable moral doctrines, social policies, and political influence. Now am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. I am talking about something much deeper-namely the fear of religion itself...I want Atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn't just that I don't believe in God and naturally, hope there is no God! I don't want there to be a God; I don't want the universe to be like that."

I was just curious if and how many other Atheists share this sentiment.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Majikthise]

I don't think you will find any here that feel this way.Just what do you believe this quote is "telling" of? Hmm?:sarcastic

 

[Majikthise]

Either this guy is a dink, or this quote has been taken out of context.

 

[Era]

You know this is good for an psychological analyse . There is a diference in saying " there is no God" and " I don`t want there to be a God" . A true atheist will tell from the begining that there is no God . The second answer represents insecurity and this is what most people feel . Their conciousness , the fact that they know that " is not right to say -God does not exist ", all this makes them so full of fear . The lonely universe scares everyone . So this is the typical man that shows an elevate imagine just so he can fit into his time .

 

[michel]

You know this is good for an psychological analyse . There is a diference in saying " there is no God" and " I don`t want there to be a God" . A true atheist will tell from the begining that there is no God . The second answer represents insecurity and this is what most people feel . Their conciousness , the fact that they know that " is not right to say -God does not exist ", all this makes them so full of fear . The lonely universe scares everyone . So this is the typical man that shows an elevate imagine just so he can fit into his time .

I agree with your first point - 'I don't want there to be a God' implies a fear of the unknown, whilst 'I don't believe in God' is an assertion of the rejection of faith.

 

[Nick Soapdish]

You know this is good for an psychological analyse . There is a diference in saying " there is no God" and " I don`t want there to be a God" . A true atheist will tell from the begining that there is no God . The second answer represents insecurity and this is what most people feel . Their conciousness , the fact that they know that " is not right to say -God does not exist ", all this makes them so full of fear . The lonely universe scares everyone . So this is the typical man that shows an elevate imagine just so he can fit into his time .

A resolute belief/disbelief in God originates with the heart. If someone can make a convincing logical argument for either option (atheism/theism) that agrees with everyone's assumptions, I am all ears.

A person's heart tells them how to regard the world and each person's assumptions from which they reason is derived from their heart. I find his admission to be open and honest.

 

[Era]

Well , michael , I finaly made myself understood atofel , I never said that he was not true . Yes , he was open and honest , but a true atheist would reject the idea of an existing God . Just like you said , you feel that , so he would feel that there is no God . Some people are affraid of admiting both believing /non-believing in God because of fear . Here is not the fear of God , here is the fear of society . Is that thing with having an etiquete , like a mark . From his words I got the idea that he want it to tell to himself that he is an atheist . Remember what Descartes used to say , a thing is true when you`re out of doubt about it . I believe he had a doubt in him being an atheist . If you`re not sure about God non-existence , then you must not say that you are an atheist, but an agnostic .

 

[michel]

Well , michael , I finaly made myself understood atofel , I never said that he was not true . Yes , he was open and honest , but a true atheist would reject the idea of an existing God . Just like you said , you feel that , so he would feel that there is no God . Some people are affraid of admiting both believing /non-believing in God because of fear . Here is not the fear of God , here is the fear of society . Is that thing with having an etiquete , like a mark . From his words I got the idea that he want it to tell to himself that he is an atheist . Remember what Descartes used to say , a thing is true when you`re out of doubt about it . I believe he had a doubt in him being an atheist . If you`re not sure about God non-existence , then you must not say that you are an atheist, but an agnostic .

In which case, aren't all atheists in fact agnostics - I mean, you cannot PROVE that there is no God, just as much that I can't PROVE that there is one (not that I feel I need proof- for me) ?

 

[Era]

michael , I know this : atheist is the person that is sure about God non-existence , he is diferent from agnostic by the fact , that the agnostic can not decide if God exists or not . How does the atheist know that God does not exists it`s a simple fact , he bases only on science . Now there had been many theories about life on earth and about the universe that explains this world as an evolution based on diferent physical causes. Some might say " yes, but what about the feelins that one has regarding God existence , well they came from our psychology of life , the area that we live in and so on ... In many ways an atheist can prove God non-existence better than the believer proving the divinity .

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

Well, my stumpy fingers struck again with a "typo". The sentence in the original post; "Now am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods." should actually read Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. It might seem like a small deal but I felt a need to correct it.

Just what do you believe this quote is "telling" of? Hmm?:sarcastic

Well, I thought it was kind of self explainatory but I was thinking that this statement represented unbashed commited unbelief unlike that of Bertrand Russel's skepticism which represented an honest search of reason.

Either this guy is a dink, or this quote has been taken out of context.

That is why I posted the source of where the quote came from. Please feel free to check it out for yourself .

If you`re not sure about God non-existence , then you must not say that you are an atheist, but an agnostic .

Now, what interests me about this statment is how many Atheists I have heard that state that they use Agnosticism as a method of reaching Atheism.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Majikthise]

Well, my stumpy fingers struck again with a "typo". The sentence in the original post; "Now am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods." should actually read Nor am I referring to the association of many religious beliefs with superstition and the acceptance of evident empirical falsehoods. It might seem like a small deal but I felt a need to correct it.

No problem , I think we all got the point.


Well, I thought it was kind of self explainatory but I was thinking that this statement represented unbashed commited unbelief unlike that of Bertrand Russel's skepticism which represented an honest search of reason.

How is this commited unbelief when he sounds like a scared puppy?


That is why I posted the source of where the quote came from. Please feel free to check it out for yourself .


Now, what interests me about this statment is how many Atheists I have heard that state that they use Agnosticism as a method of reaching Atheism.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

So if you converted to Judaism you would still believe jesus was the son of god?That's a holey perception you have there. Pun intended.:areyoucra

 

[Era]

SoliDeoGloria , those two , agnosticism and atheism you know they are oposed . So you say that some say that they start with agnosticism to reach atheism . Agnosticism is based on nothing , I mean it doesn`t have certain theories , unlike atheism who has many theories . So in another words is like " I don`t know if God exist , therefore God does not exist " . This to me sounds like solipsism . this is the reason why I said that an affirmation like this of atheism it must be certain . There are a lot of agnostics who want to be atheists , but their fear of the outcoming doesn`t give them credit .

 

[michel]

SoliDeoGloria , those two , agnosticism and atheism you know they are oposed . So you say that some say that they start with agnosticism to reach atheism . Agnosticism is based on nothing , I mean it doesn`t have certain theories , unlike atheism who has many theories . So in another words is like " I don`t know if God exist , therefore God does not exist " . This to me sounds like solipsism . this is the reason why I said that an affirmation like this of atheism it must be certain . There are a lot of agnostics who want to be atheists , but their fear of the outcoming doesn`t give them credit .

Era,

Agnostisim and atheism are not opposed - Agnostism is atheism with one foot set in the 'I'm not going to rule out the possiblity of a God, because I want to keep my options open' camp.
If you look upon religious beliefs/non-beliefs as 'laid out' on a straight line, The line might start at one end with the most devout orthodox Catholic, going down through all the 'not so strong religions), through to Agnosticism, the Atheism, and then off to devil worshipping. As I say, agnosticism is not far removed from atheism.

 

[Era]

michael , I do apreciate your opinion , but I still consider them opposed . Maybe some atheist could make their point . Now going from christianity to agnosticism it could be , but going from atheism to devil worshiping I don`t think it could be possible . To worship Devil you must have a strong faith inside . So the science man , who don`t have much of doubts about God / Satan non-existence will not go to worship Satan .

 

[Majikthise]

michael , I do apreciate your opinion , but I still consider them opposed . Maybe some atheist could make their point . Now going from christianity to agnosticism it could be , but going from atheism to devil worshiping I don`t think it could be possible . To worship Devil you must have a strong faith inside . So the science man , who don`t have much of doubts about God / Satan non-existence will not go to worship Satan .

You understand!!

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

So if you converted to Judaism you would still believe jesus was the son of god?That's a holey perception you have there. Pun intended.:areyoucra

SoliDeoGloria , those two , agnosticism and atheism you know they are oposed . So you say that some say that they start with agnosticism to reach atheism . Agnosticism is based on nothing , I mean it doesn`t have certain theories , unlike atheism who has many theories . So in another words is like " I don`t know if God exist , therefore God does not exist " . This to me sounds like solipsism . this is the reason why I said that an affirmation like this of atheism it must be certain . There are a lot of agnostics who want to be atheists , but their fear of the outcoming doesn`t give them credit .

All I did was state that I have had conversations with people who claim to be Atheists and have used agnosticism as a methodology for reaching Atheism. I never claimed that they were one in the same or that they weren't one in the same. If it's any consolation, I know that there are other methodologies people have used to reach Atheism, like rationalism, skepticism, etc. In all fairness though, what should be noted is how David Hume, who is considered by most to be the originator of Agnosticism, and his works are often quoted by Atheists when debating against Theism.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Era]

Thank you Majikthise , I really need it an opinion from an atheist!

 

[michel]

michael , I know this : atheist is the person that is sure about God non-existence , he is diferent from agnostic by the fact , that the agnostic can not decide if God exists or not . How does the atheist know that God does not exists it`s a simple fact , he bases only on science . Now there had been many theories about life on earth and about the universe that explains this world as an evolution based on diferent physical causes. Some might say " yes, but what about the feelins that one has regarding God existence , well they came from our psychology of life , the area that we live in and so on ... In many ways an atheist can prove God non-existence better than the believer proving the divinity .

Sorry Era (and, by the way, my name is MICHEL),

What you have said is fair enough, I suppose until you think about it. Can you prove that Love exists, by science ? can you prove that hate exists, by science ? - I trhink that's where your argument falls down.

 

[Era]

Michael , no offesnse , but psychology can express how feelings are made , neurology can do that .

 

[michel]

Michael , no offesnse , but psychology can express how feelings are made , neurology can do that .

No offence taken, but you can't measure love - surely if something can be proven by science, there has to be a set of rules by which you can measure. There is a difference in UNDERSTANDING that something exists, witout being able to PROVE it. For all you know, what you call 'love' by psychological definition may well be the same as 'lust' in somebody elses book. You CANNOT prove love exists - most people even disagree omn the definition of Love - apart from which there are different forms of love.