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Set isn't Satan

is Set, the same as Satan?


  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I find your use of the word archetype strange when you apply that they have no context. The whole concept derives from Jungian psychology for the most part, and within that "context" the archetypes exist in the unconscious stream. That's to say they are not identified by a particular character, culture, or religion. For example:

Satan, Hades, Ahriman, Samyaza, Enki, and Melek Taus could be seen as sharing archetypal roles such as:

1) Ruler of hell/Underworld
2) Bringer of the Promethean Fire
3) Illuminator
4) Ruler of Earth
5) Rebel vs Heaven/Holy
6) Teacher of Magic/Mystery or Art

Etc...

Set's archetypal roles:

1) Ruler of the desert
2) Ruler of foreign nations
3) Storm God
4) Defender of the cycle of the day (Ra's Boat), battling Apep (Chaos)
5) Minor role in the entire Osiris rebirth story
6) Rival of Horus, God of the fertile plain (Set was a nature deity..)

Never once except in the late period was Set seen as maligned and that was because of the Aten cults. The "Devil" of Egyptian mythology was Apep not Set. If anything, Set is a pretty minor character on the whole. None of his "archetypes" or roles line up with these other fellows.

Your logic could be applied to Satan as well, but both things fail on the existential proof. It is equally invalid to say something doesn't exist that you cannot see, as to say something does not exist because you've never seen it. :D The proper comment is that, "You are not aware of any X", rather than your statement which implies you have some sort of unequivocal proof -- that can neither exist, nor can you possess ever. You cannot even prove you exist because it is impossible to separate the subject, object, and viewer. However, just because that proof doesn't exist doesn't mean that someone can assume Set or Satan exists either. :D The games of logic... :D

Ummm, your knowledge on Set is extremely inaccurate. I'd recommend Te Veldes book if you're truly interested. Set went up and down many times, and always was one of the most important gods at many times. It's possible, by his title "son of Nut", that he was originally a head deity, especially as a storm god to nomadic Egyptians. I did a long investigation into the two which can be seen here as well:

The Mysteries of Set and Horus
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I agree in this.

When it comes to determine the ancient deity myths and their "archetypical attributes", it is of course very important to know to which celestial objects the deities is connected.
IMO speaks the Ancient Myths of Creation of factual celestial images and motions which is described in "the images of humans", but ALSO as concrete astronomical and cosmological knowledge.
Read more here - Ancient Science. The Ancient and native Way of Knowledge

Good point, just like Set and Satan shared the symbolism of a Serpent. For the Egyptians this was an astrological thing, I'm sure for Christians that meaning was long lost and an unconscious carry over.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Yes, however there can be mythic character sameness, from culture to culture, to an extent. I don't think that Set and Satan are an example of a same deity, in other words. I think that the name similarity, /there could be one, sort of/, is coincidental.

They are not the same as in identical, Satan is a younger, perverted version of the same Form as Set. That's how most religions have worked, by passing down misunderstandings, changing roles, etc. Look at how many other characters Jesus could correlate to. Humans have the same basic modes of thinking inherently, though also varying cultures. It's no surprise we come to the same concepts then interpret them differently.

Some people who try to study ones beliefs by researching the LHP are blinded to not fully understand it. My dad is an example of a person who tends to be blinded
By getting inaccurate information when he tries to study Satanism. Don Webb once brought up an interesting statement, it does not seem egotistical but he has a point. I believe he brought up that 90% of us in the LHP are more intelligent than the population in mainstream society to that extent. This statement was brought up in the Mysteries of the Temple of Set.

True. Now I want to read that again but I'm reading like 5 things, and keep just playing video games for my work break instead lol.

I specifically haven't had actual conversations with 1137, his supposition is literally false.

your bad suppositions to a bad supposition is indicative of serious lack of understanding of occult matters, in general

I'm not sure what you mean, would you bother to address my long, detailed, thought out response with more than an offhand comment:
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
/is satan literally the 'same' deity, as Saturnus
For Christians, Satan should be associated with Venus, which was originally thought to be a star which would appear sometimes in the morning, sometimes in the evening at twilight and would disappear in between. "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" (Isaiah 14:12) Set is from Egyptian myth. I have read briefly that Venus appears in Egyptology as Tioumoutiri in the morning appearances and Quaiti in the evening appearances. I do not know enough about Set to determine how Set relates to the star Venus if at all. Perhaps there is no connection through astronomy. Set could be associated with Venus or with Saturn or whatever, but Satan is associated with Venus in its morning position just before it vanishes.
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
^


That isn't my problem, but your bad suppositions are still indicative that you are having difficulty separating fact from fiction.

Can you explain my so called difficulties of separating fact from fiction? Since your acting like the expert himself. After all many of my replies are incompatible with your provoking challenges between 1137 and I.
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
I specifically haven't had actual conversations with 1137, his supposition is literally false.

How do you know if his supposition is literally false? Yes, I may not agree with most of 1137's long statements but I value him as my fellow academic and Setian colleague. You seem to be only opinionated of yourself, you seem to be gratifying ones ego on the keyboard instead of being thoughtful and open minded.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I'll just repost this until it's addressed.

While some may claim otherwise, there is no reason to believe that the Hebrew word “Satan” is at all related to the Egyptian god Set. This is simply a ridiculous claim based on the sound of the name Set-hen, which comes from a language we don’t even actually know how to pronounce. So no, the claim is ridiculous. However, Set and Satan are similar in almost every other way.

In Setian cosmology, gods are understood as Platonic Forms, the essence of things that exist, which carry the characteristics of god. It can be thought of like archetypes, except the Forms are not simply abstract ideas – they truly exist. Set is the Form of individual, independent self-hood, or Isolate Intelligence. You know that deep, seemingly continuous Self that you are almost constantly aware of, that seems able to control your body, that thinks abstractly and day dreams? This is the Form of Set, representing that which is separate from and can go against nature. In popular Egyptian mythology, Set was the “god against the gods”, being a threat to Ma’at and eternally combated (and, of course, eventually defeated) by Horus. This is near identical to the evolving views on Satan over the centuries. It represents separation from God, tries to divide us from God. In Hebrew it was an adversary to test faith in God, and in Christianity it is a literal being trying to eternally separate us from God. Interestingly, one of the oldest meanings of Set is “separator” or “isolator”. Set was so separated from the gods that it is the only deity represented by an animal that does not exist.

In Christian symbolism, God and goodness tends to be associated with light whereas Satan and evil are associated with the darkness. This is extremely common symbolism found even all the way back in Egyptian religion, like with the solar worship and fear of the sun being stopped by Apep in the underworld. Set was always very clearly associated with darkness, from his original form of an afterlife deity, to his associations with Apep and pure evil.

It is also important to note that Satan was not always considered evil. Originally Satan worked for God in order to test the faith of man, which changed only with Christianity. The decline of Set was even greater, as he was once one of the most respected and revered deities in Egypt. For Set, he was consider the sole son of Nut, and was important to the nomadic Egyptians as a god who brought storms. However, with the importation of the Osirian religion, and thus Solar religion, Set was made into a villain and scapegoat, being a murderer, rapist, pederast, and so on. Likewise Satan, who gave humanity knowledge, and acted as an agent of God, was later turned into a representation of all things evil.

Speaking of the serpent in the garden giving humanity higher cognitive abilities, it is interesting to note that Set was the deity required to combat Apep, the god of mindlessness, chaos, and disorder. Being represented by the northern circumpolar stars, Set was also closely associated with the serpent, thanks not only to Draco but to Alpha Draconis having been the previous pole star.

Anyways, I think I’ll move into the summarization now. Set and Satan are almost identical Forms, even in the evolution of their character and their mythologies. They were both beings associated with darkness, both representing that which went again God or the gods, both associated with the serpent, individual strength, both being slowly demonized and scapegoated by a god of resurrection, a new afterlife, the concept of “sin”, and so on. No, the names do not seem to be related historically, though it is interesting to note that Satan originally meant “adversary” whereas Set closely resembles it as “Separator”. Perhaps most interesting, the modern religions of these two beings stemmed from the same place and time in history. In other words, the idea that there is no relation between Set and Satan is, in a word, fideism.

If anyone it interested, I recommend “Seth: God of Confusion” by H. Te Velde. It is likely the best academic and objective work you will find, untouched by mysticism, occultism, or other such biases. Next, “The Invention of Satanism” by Dyrendal, Lewis, and Peterson is also fantastic – a modern, very objective academic study on Satanism including a wealth of statistical data. Finally, while the most open to bias as it is from an “insider”, “Lords of the Left Hand Path” by Dr. Stephen Flowers is a fantastic look at the history of the Left Hand Path, both East and West.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Ummm, your knowledge on Set is extremely inaccurate. I'd recommend Te Veldes book if you're truly interested. Set went up and down many times, and always was one of the most important gods at many times. It's possible, by his title "son of Nut", that he was originally a head deity, especially as a storm god to nomadic Egyptians. I did a long investigation into the two which can be seen here as well:

The Mysteries of Set and Horus

I have to be clear that I only consider Set minor in comparison to other characters in the Egyptian pantheon. He doesn't have a critical role like Thoth, Maat, or others do. There certainly was a period where he was a major character, but that time was short and basically tied to certain pharaohs. My criticism still stands...

I completely disagree with any notion that Egyptian gods represent any sort of platonic forms, they were beings to the Egyptians themselves. Any sort of revisionist thinking is just that, and ToS is completely full of crap in that regard if that is what they really feel. Egyptians viewed their relationships with the gods as intensely personal... I don't take what they say with any authority because I simply refuse to accept their retcon, which doesn't jive with history.

If it floats your boat, hey, I mean no offense. I just don't find it any more authentic than when the pagans borrow Celtic things and repurpose them. The only difference is the pagans admit they are refactoring it. :D

Anyway, the Set-hen and Satan mean nothing... Egyptian/Demotic script languages and Semitic languages have no connection at all. Completely different people, and sound-a-likes are coincidental.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The topic was vague from the get-go. Nice shade of fuchsia in the OP, btw.
It's only vague if you don't know the subject.
It's like you're completely unaware that both 'Set', and 'Satan', are characters outside some specific group paradigms
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
It's only vague if you don't know the subject.
It's like you're completely unaware that both 'Set', and 'Satan', are characters outside some specific group paradigms

I've addressed this. Twice. You're not even slightly interested in this debate, and I recommend my brothers @Sutekh and @Onyx not buy into a conversation with people who have no interest in learning and Xepering.
 

Sutekh

Priest of Odin
Premium Member
You are clearly not yourself any sort of occult expert, since you are even goofing this simple stuff. You have A. Crowley as your avatar, did you even read the works? Hmm the first occult book I read was an A. Crowley , that was a long time ago. From your posts, I'd surmise that your skimming these texts?
/rhetorical question/

I am not trying to troll or skim through these texts, I do not consider myself an expert in anyway. I can tell that you enjoy your ego rides trying to show off your so called intellectual good guy badge. I've studied Thelema and Crowley before, as a matter of fact whether I do not agree with Crowley I have my own respects for him. And as a matter of fact it is none of your business to mock us, I've just about had it with you. And to be honest I have little respect for a mundane just like you.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
You posted it once, /it's enough/, if this off topic nonsense wasn't in this thread, we could have addressed this already.

How exactly was my detailed post on Set and Satan, which you refuse to address, not relevant to a discussion on Set and Satan. I'm guessing you simply couldn't explain away the connection so ignored it instead.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
I have to be clear that I only consider Set minor in comparison to other characters in the Egyptian pantheon. He doesn't have a critical role like Thoth, Maat, or others do. There certainly was a period where he was a major character, but that time was short and basically tied to certain pharaohs. My criticism still stands...

I completely disagree with any notion that Egyptian gods represent any sort of platonic forms, they were beings to the Egyptians themselves. Any sort of revisionist thinking is just that, and ToS is completely full of crap in that regard if that is what they really feel. Egyptians viewed their relationships with the gods as intensely personal... I don't take what they say with any authority because I simply refuse to accept their retcon, which doesn't jive with history.

If it floats your boat, hey, I mean no offense. I just don't find it any more authentic than when the pagans borrow Celtic things and repurpose them. The only difference is the pagans admit they are refactoring it. :D

Anyway, the Set-hen and Satan mean nothing... Egyptian/Demotic script languages and Semitic languages have no connection at all. Completely different people, and sound-a-likes are coincidental.

Yes, because the Greeks never took anything from Egypt, right? Plato probably pulled the theory out of his ***! We know quite clearly that there was a divide between initiated and mundane knowledge, such as the extreme importance of Set to Osiris. I'm not sure why you're talking about the ToS when I don't think there are any members here. You didn't get in, we get it, just drop it! I'd be curious for you to show where Setianism claims to be some sort of pagan revival.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
While some may claim otherwise, there is no reason to believe that the Hebrew word “Satan” is at all related to the Egyptian god Set. This is simply a ridiculous claim based on the sound of the name Set-hen, which comes from a language we don’t even actually know how to pronounce. So no, the claim is ridiculous. However, Set and Satan are similar in almost every other way.

In Setian cosmology, gods are understood as Platonic Forms, the essence of things that exist, which carry the characteristics of god. It can be thought of like archetypes, except the Forms are not simply abstract ideas – they truly exist. Set is the Form of individual, independent self-hood, or Isolate Intelligence. You know that deep, seemingly continuous Self that you are almost constantly aware of, that seems able to control your body, that thinks abstractly and day dreams? This is the Form of Set, representing that which is separate from and can go against nature. In popular Egyptian mythology, Set was the “god against the gods”, being a threat to Ma’at and eternally combated (and, of course, eventually defeated) by Horus. This is near identical to the evolving views on Satan over the centuries. It represents separation from God, tries to divide us from God. In Hebrew it was an adversary to test faith in God, and in Christianity it is a literal being trying to eternally separate us from God. Interestingly, one of the oldest meanings of Set is “separator” or “isolator”. Set was so separated from the gods that it is the only deity represented by an animal that does not exist.

In Christian symbolism, God and goodness tends to be associated with light whereas Satan and evil are associated with the darkness. This is extremely common symbolism found even all the way back in Egyptian religion, like with the solar worship and fear of the sun being stopped by Apep in the underworld. Set was always very clearly associated with darkness, from his original form of an afterlife deity, to his associations with Apep and pure evil.

It is also important to note that Satan was not always considered evil. Originally Satan worked for God in order to test the faith of man, which changed only with Christianity. The decline of Set was even greater, as he was once one of the most respected and revered deities in Egypt. For Set, he was consider the sole son of Nut, and was important to the nomadic Egyptians as a god who brought storms. However, with the importation of the Osirian religion, and thus Solar religion, Set was made into a villain and scapegoat, being a murderer, rapist, pederast, and so on. Likewise Satan, who gave humanity knowledge, and acted as an agent of God, was later turned into a representation of all things evil.

Speaking of the serpent in the garden giving humanity higher cognitive abilities, it is interesting to note that Set was the deity required to combat Apep, the god of mindlessness, chaos, and disorder. Being represented by the northern circumpolar stars, Set was also closely associated with the serpent, thanks not only to Draco but to Alpha Draconis having been the previous pole star.

Anyways, I think I’ll move into the summarization now. Set and Satan are almost identical Forms, even in the evolution of their character and their mythologies. They were both beings associated with darkness, both representing that which went again God or the gods, both associated with the serpent, individual strength, both being slowly demonized and scapegoated by a god of resurrection, a new afterlife, the concept of “sin”, and so on. No, the names do not seem to be related historically, though it is interesting to note that Satan originally meant “adversary” whereas Set closely resembles it as “Separator”. Perhaps most interesting, the modern religions of these two beings stemmed from the same place and time in history. In other words, the idea that there is no relation between Set and Satan is, in a word, fideism.

If anyone it interested, I recommend “Seth: God of Confusion” by H. Te Velde. It is likely the best academic and objective work you will find, untouched by mysticism, occultism, or other such biases. Next, “The Invention of Satanism” by Dyrendal, Lewis, and Peterson is also fantastic – a modern, very objective academic study on Satanism including a wealth of statistical data. Finally, while the most open to bias as it is from an “insider”, “Lords of the Left Hand Path” by Dr. Stephen Flowers is a fantastic look at the history of the Left Hand Path, both East and West.

First thing noticed is that, 'satan' isn't associated with 'darkness', except by a certain paradigm and context, of religious thought. The parallel, for example, with Lucifer, ie a Being of Light, /literally the light bringer, is pretty much the opposite of any relational there. Moving on to 'Set', as same entity, this is amazingly vague, as Set is an complete 'Deity', as opposed to traditional 'Satan', in Judaism, /not a deity, and 'Satan' in Christianity, /not a deity. The inference to deity Satan in Christianity is very specific, not common, and certainly isn't an archetype for a Deity. 'Satan', also, is not an 'idea', traditionally, it's a literal being (of some sort), so a relational has to be established between the two characters as they 'actually' are, not your opinion of what they represent.

 
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David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Set is a theory called naive set theory by georg cantor. So most mathematicians and philosophers late 19th and early 20th century most certainly believed that set was indeed satan and George had unleashed the devil.
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
since you want an 'immediate' answer to this collection of ideas, first thing noticed is that, 'satan' isn't associated with 'darkness', except by a certain paradigm and context, of religious thought. The parallel, for example, with Lucifer, ie a Being of Light, /literally the light bringer, is pretty much the opposite of any relational there. Moving on to 'Set', as same entity, this is amazingly vague, as Set is an complete 'Deity', as opposed to traditional 'Satan', in Judaism, /not a deity, and 'Satan' in Christianity, /not a deity. The inference to deity Satan in Christianity is very specific, not common, and certainly isn't an archetype for a Deity. 'Satan', also, is not an 'idea', traditionally, it's a literal being (of some sort), so a relational has to be established between the two characters as they 'actually' are, not your opinion of what they represent.

It would help if you could post your own material, as well, because the commentary you posted does not have to mean, that the entity is presumed the same character/

Lucifer is not even an aspect of Christianity, and when we pretend he is we realize he was the pre fall Satan. You're literally the first person I've ever knowingly met who rejects a correlation between the Christian god and the symbolism of light. Further, to compare something like Egypt to monotheism, the gods more equate to angles, because there is not the one, all powerful being in these religions. In this sense Set is even more like Satan, as opposed to a more monotheistic version of god. I can't really make sense of the rest of your response, and don't understand what you mean by posting my own material? Everything here is my own material...

On that note, we're done discussing this, methinks.

I sure hope so!
 
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