Sex and Marriage in Vaisnava Dharma

[SomeRandom]

Any consequences? Consequences in India could be dire. Being black mailed and forced to have sex with other people, being called for a meet and then whisked away to be gang-raped, for village belles being sold for prostitution after a promise of marriage, refusing to have further sex, having a friendship with another boy, refusing to marry, acid attacks and killings, being burnt alive, because of this; and if the girl marries, then doing all possible to wreck her marriage. SomeRandom, you do not live in India. In India, the consequences are harsh, sometimes very harsh. I do not think the time has come in India for sex before marriage. India as a whole is not yet in 21st Century.

I didn't realise that the op lived in India. Unless Terese has moved last time I checked they lived in Sydney. The West is ready, has been for decades. Since I assumed the OP was in fact Western I chose therefore to focus on more Western concepts. Like the evolving nature of interpersonal relationships. Hinduism is hailed for it's adaptability, after all.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I do not think Terese, the OP, has relocated anywhere. She is most probably still in Australia.

 

[SomeRandom]

Oh well you know. Different locations different interpretations

 

[Kirran]

If you're drawn to the world and enjoying yourself, fulfilling kama, then yeah go for it. As long as you're not harming anyone. This is the learning experience we're put here for, why we go through all these births. It's attachment you're to move past - whether you find it easier to do that through doing or not doing something is your thing.

 

[ShivaFan]

Who are you referring to ShivaFan ji?

@Terese

I am talking to you and the OP, which asked -

"today i was thinking of my future Sri Vaisnava initiation, and recalled that i had to become celibate for a year upon doing so. This is not the issue, here, i can do that with ease, but what i am quite insufficient in knowledge is the attitude of sex and marriage in Vaisnava circles"

I am telling you the facts of attitude of sex and marriage in ISKCON which is also typical of many Vaishnav circles. As I said, I have no idea if you are thinking of initiation in ISKCON, but many other like sects have the same principles - marriage and ghrihastha is for the purpose of reproducing more Vaishnavs, more devotees. That one should remain loyal and not divorce. If you are not to take grihastha it is better to remain celibate. And very important, to understand that you marry not just with each other but into a much larger family of devotees and relatives and community whom are now seeing you as family so do not dishonor the community, everyone builds respect with each other by being loyal and honorable and as a community of bhaktas. YOUR MARRIAGE IS ALSO A LONG TERM COMMITMENT TO A COMMUNITY AND THEIR ATTITUDES ABOUT MARRIAGE AND AFFAIRS.

 

[Terese]

@Terese

I am talking to you and the OP, which asked -

"today i was thinking of my future Sri Vaisnava initiation, and recalled that i had to become celibate for a year upon doing so. This is not the issue, here, i can do that with ease, but what i am quite insufficient in knowledge is the attitude of sex and marriage in Vaisnava circles"

I am telling you the facts of attitude of sex and marriage in ISKCON which is also typical of many Vaishnav circles. As I said, I have no idea if you are thinking of initiation in ISKCON, but many other like sects have the same principles - marriage and ghrihastha is for the purpose of reproducing more Vaishnavs, more devotees. That one should remain loyal and not divorce. If you are not to take grihastha it is better to remain celibate. And very important, to understand that you marry not just with each other but into a much larger family of devotees and relatives and community whom are now seeing you as family so do not dishonor the community, everyone builds respect with each other by being loyal and honorable and as a community of bhaktas. YOUR MARRIAGE IS ALSO A LONG TERM COMMITMENT TO A COMMUNITY AND THEIR ATTITUDES ABOUT MARRIAGE AND AFFAIRS.

Thank you ShivaFan ji for the information, thank you for your valuable knowledge! I am not getting married anytime soon, but thank you for the advice

No, i am not thinking of being initiated at an ISKCON temple

 

[Aupmanyav]

Please note that the other Vaishnava traditions like Sri Vaishnava or Madhva are much more orthodox than the information on some free-wheeling ISKCON devotees provided here by ShivaFan.

 

[Terese]

Please note that the other Vaishnava traditions like Sri Vaishnava or Madhva are much more orthodox than the information on some free-wheeling ISKCON devotees provided here by ShivaFan.

Thank you for clarifying Aup ji

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram terese ji .

Pranam everyone, earlier today i was thinking of my future Sri Vaisnava initiation, and recalled that i had to become celibate for a year upon doing so. This is not the issue, here, i can do that with ease, but what i am quite insufficient in knowledge is the attitude of sex and marriage in Vaisnava circles. Do we have a 'no sex before marriage' concept? Or any religious rules pertaining to the sexuality of a Vaisnava? What of marriage? Is divorce shunned?

Thank you for taking the time to look at my post

Hari Bol

Jai Jai , ...Hari Hari Bol , ....

Coming to this post late , I think all will know whos comments I favour , ... @निताइ dasa @ShivaFan @Sw. Vandana Jyothi , each make very fine points, ....


As far as I am concerned there is only one way (Varnashrama Dharma) which we should follow if we can , ....for those born in Bharatia Families this is perhaps easier , .....as the education starts young , but for those in the west , we should follow as best we can , and once being aware of the reasoning behind certain prohibitions it is better to follow them if we want to progress spiritualy (as material life in all its forms sexual or non sexual can become a huge obstical and distraction) , ..... so for those starting out in life who have perhaps not fallen into western ways of sexual promiscuity and lax morality where commitment is concerned , it is a perfect time to give full conciderstion to the logic behind Dharmic rules and regulations , in other words the Varnashrama system , why ?

Celibacy untill marriage , which allows one to devote oneself entirely to ones Brahmachari studies without emotional distractions , .....

followed by Marriage, ..as a supportive relationship , it is more than a licence for sexual enjoyment , of course it need not rule it out but it shoud be the reason or the main focus of Marriage , Married life is certainly for procreation not just as some have said ''to provide more devotees'' , but the other way arround , to give a good home envitoment to Jivas who want to be born in devotee families !!! ...
I certainly am not coming back into a household that is not a Devotee household , Pure vegetarian , fully comitted , I want Bhagavatm for bed side stories and unless they will teach me to Sing Bhajan play Mridanga , Harmonium or Tabla Im not interested ! ....so being Married is not thinking about oneself and ones personal pleasures it is a supportive relationship , husband and wife are there to support eachother intheir sadhana and to provide a loving and stable home for young Jivas , .....and so much I love what @Sw. Vandana Jyothi said about giving up sex by the time ones children start their own families , .... as the parents now have new nurturing roles , .....

and as for Divirce ? , .....We vowed ''No sepperation No divorce '' ....and I do not intend to break Guru jis heart , ...the only time Divorce is permissable is in the case of extreme cruelty , if husband turns out to be abusive otherwise there is no excuse , ...Marriage is a lifetime commitment so should not be taken lightly , ....this makes people behave reasonably with each other and to sort problems out . A wife should be devotted to the husband and the Husband should be devoted to the wife this is the only way that children should be brought into this world , ....

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

Please note that the other Vaishnava traditions like Sri Vaishnava or Madhva are much more orthodox than the information on some free-wheeling ISKCON devotees provided here by ShivaFan.

Gaudiya Traditions also are equaly ortadox , or should be ! .....it seems that within all traditions that come out into the west there is a transitionary period where many mistakes are made in that devotees think that they can write the rules to suit them selves , ....in this instance Shiva fan was talking about ISKCON devotees , but mistakes happen equaly in all traditions especialy where the devotee tries to encompas wetern values such as approach to sexuality and marriage ,
all be it that many of these attitudes well intentioned , we must be carefull . we canot just strech the rules to suit our own predilictions otherwise there comes a point where liberalism has watered down traditions dictated by Dharma to the point that it ceases to be the tradition that it once was , .....

We canot be selective , ...as Aupmanyav ji (Shivafan ji like wise) has said many times He and his Dharam Patni have remained dedicated and loyal to one another throughout life , ...this dedication is so important to the raising of families and sets an example for the following generations whilst being there to give all nececary support , .....this is Dharma (as in Duty), ....

the Varnasharama System which is Dharma (as in Law) is there for a very specific purpose if we try to alter it just a little here and a little there to please our selves then it becomes corrupted , if this system is allowed to breakdown then society breaks down , so as westerners if we want to bring this system into the west , if we want to become Vaisnava we canot accept some parts without accepting the others , ....otherwise we will be responcible for breaking the tradition that we think we love , .....so this behoves any westerner coming into the tradition to think very carefully about what he is doing , ......as our Guru Ji often said if we want to cross the River of Necience one canot have ones feet in two differnt Boats , ...

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Shiva fan ji

Begging all read this carefully , ....

am telling you the facts of attitude of sex and marriage in ISKCON which is also typical of many Vaishnav circles. As I said, I have no idea if you are thinking of initiation in ISKCON, but many other like sects have the same principles - marriage and ghrihastha is for the purpose of reproducing more Vaishnavs, more devotees. That one should remain loyal and not divorce. If you are not to take grihastha it is better to remain celibate.

this is perfect example of Varnashram system , ...and agreed , it applies equaly to all Vaishnava traditions .

And very important, to understand that you marry not just with each other but into a much larger family of devotees and relatives and community whom are now seeing you as family so do not dishonor the community, everyone builds respect with each other by being loyal and honorable and as a community of bhaktas. YOUR MARRIAGE IS ALSO A LONG TERM COMMITMENT TO A COMMUNITY AND THEIR ATTITUDES ABOUT MARRIAGE AND AFFAIRS.

again I canot agree more , ....especialy with the point in bold , we are not self governing units we are comunity , comunity is like an extended family we do our best to support eachother and to preserve the purity of the comunity as this is the only way in material life , .... if we are to bring children into this world we surely want it to be into a just world where Dharma is preserved .

 

[Aupmanyav]

Wholly agree with you, Ratiben. "Marriage is 75% duty and 25% fun." Quote from Aupmanyav.

 

[Terese]

Namaskaram Aupmanyav ji



Gaudiya Traditions also are equaly ortadox , or should be ! .....it seems that within all traditions that come out into the west there is a transitionary period where many mistakes are made in that devotees think that they can write the rules to suit them selves , ....in this instance Shiva fan was talking about ISKCON devotees , but mistakes happen equaly in all traditions especialy where the devotee tries to encompas wetern values such as approach to sexuality and marriage ,
all be it that many of these attitudes well intentioned , we must be carefull . we canot just strech the rules to suit our own predilictions otherwise there comes a point where liberalism has watered down traditions dictated by Dharma to the point that it ceases to be the tradition that it once was , .....

We canot be selective , ...as Aupmanyav ji (Shivafan ji like wise) has said many times He and his Dharam Patni have remained dedicated and loyal to one another throughout life , ...this dedication is so important to the raising of families and sets an example for the following generations whilst being there to give all nececary support , .....this is Dharma (as in Duty), ....

the Varnasharama System which is Dharma (as in Law) is there for a very specific purpose if we try to alter it just a little here and a little there to please our selves then it becomes corrupted , if this system is allowed to breakdown then society breaks down , so as westerners if we want to bring this system into the west , if we want to become Vaisnava we canot accept some parts without accepting the others , ....otherwise we will be responcible for breaking the tradition that we think we love , .....so this behoves any westerner coming into the tradition to think very carefully about what he is doing , ......as our Guru Ji often said if we want to cross the River of Necience one canot have ones feet in two differnt Boats , ...

Pranam Mataji, what is the 'Varnasharama system'?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Varnāshrama dharma for a Hindu is a composite of Varna (family responsibility as given by society) and āshrama (stage of life). When 'varnāshrama' dharma was followed by the society, there was peace and prosperity and no conflict.

As you know, Hindu society was divided in four 'varnas' - Brāhmin (for continuation of dharma and study of scriptures), kshatriyas (for defense of the country and its people), Vaishya (for honest trade and agriculture to feed the society) and Shudra (to help the three 'varnas' in completion of their duty). So each person according to birth was supposed to be responsible for a particular thing and be suitably trained for that.

As for āshramas, the four were - Brahmacharya (the time for learning and preparing for life), Grihastha (as a houseolder, serve elders, rise children, upkeep of social rules), Vānaprastha (retirement from active duty, detachment, advice to younger generation) and Sannyāsa (abandonment of family life in quest of moksha). Each stage extended to 25 years.