Sex Education - Abstinence courses flawed

[desi]

The notion that "abstinence works whenever it is applied" is surely not based on any observation of actual human behavior, but rather must be merely supposed to be true. In other words, it sounds good, but doesn't work in practice.

Are you referring to immaculate conception?

 

[desi]

Condoms do stop AIDs. Double dipped latex is what nurses use to protect themselves from AIDs...

Nurses having sex with patients? I don't follow you.

 

[desi]

Sure does. And automible accidents won't happen if nobody drives a car until they are married too!

But people will drive and people will have sex - inspite of pledges to the contrary.

Bob

People choose to have sex, I've never met anyone who admitted to choosing a car wreck. Its a matter of choice versus chance/poor drivers.

 

[Jaymes]

Nurses having sex with patients? I don't follow you.

The gloves, dear. The gloves that nurses wear when working with patients to protect them from AIDs is double dipped latex.

Are you being thick on purpose?

 

[Jaymes]

People choose to have sex, I've never met anyone who admitted to choosing a car wreck. Its a matter of choice versus chance/poor drivers.

People choose to drive cars. If they'd never drive, they'd never have car wrecks.

 

[Sunstone]

Are you referring to immaculate conception?

I'm referring to the several studies that indicate abstinence only sex ed does not work very well, if at all.

 

[linwood]

Pah,

Thank you for the info about the misinfo from Project Reality.
Their Colorado abstinence only curriculum is being lauded here to push for the same in my city.

The lead is very valuable to me.

Thank You,

Edit:
By the way.

Edwin Kagen the Kentucky State Director of American Atheists just contacted me in response to a message board post I made elswhere for help with the situation in my county .
He`s the guy who runs that atheist summer camp you posted about awhile back.
The one I said I didn`t like the idea of.

He wants me to work on Camp Quests website for them.

Irony.
He has directed help my way...so he says.

 

[desi]

The gloves, dear. The gloves that nurses wear when working with patients to protect them from AIDs is double dipped latex.

Are you being thick on purpose?

Are you suggesting condoms are made from double dipped latex too?

 

[desi]

People choose to drive cars. If they'd never drive, they'd never have car wrecks.

And if they choose to have sex they open themselves up to the consequences. Its all about personal responsibility for one's body. Abstinance teaches such higher thinking, safe sex teaches people to rely on thin sheets of rubber instead of their better judgement- with predictable results.

 

[desi]

I'm referring to the several studies that indicate abstinence only sex ed does not work very well, if at all.

Show me a study that suggests abstinence fails when it is used.

 

[Ceridwen018]

Desi, abstinence does not fail when it is used, obviously. the problem is that not many are willing to use it. Also, I don't think anyone here wishes to ban abstinence eaducation, they would merely like to see safe sex-ed added to it, or rather, abstinence info added onto a safe sex-ed program.

 

[linwood]

Desi, abstinence does not fail when it is used, obviously. the problem is that not many are willing to use it. Also, I don't think anyone here wishes to ban abstinence eaducation, they would merely like to see safe sex-ed added to it, or rather, abstinence info added onto a safe sex-ed program.

It`s not even that not many are willing to use it (though that is true).

My problem with it is that no one..and I mean no none..uses it forever.

I believe the public school system is there to prepare kids for living thier life.

If contraception is not taught in a sex-ed class then they are not only failing to prepare them but the withholding of such information contitutes a lie in my mind.

It`s like teaching math but refusing to mention the multiplication tables.

Why bother teaching it at all?

 

[linwood]

Show me a study that suggests abstinence fails when it is used.

I can show you many that show how it isn`t used for a lifetime.

The despicable thing is that most of these abstinence only programs laud their own work in the middle schools but fail to mention the stats on their students once they get to high school and college.

They take a miserable nose dive.

 

[Sunstone]

Show me a study that suggests abstinence fails when it is used.

The question is not whether abstinence works, it is whether abstinence only sexuality education works. The evidence is overwhelming that abstinence only sexuality education doesn't work.

J.J. Frost and J.D. Forrest, "Understanding the Impact of Effective Teenage Pregnancy Prevention Programs", Family Planning Perspectives 27 (1995)

D. Kirby et al., "School Based Programs to Reduce Sexual Risk Behaviors: A Review of Effectiveness", Public Health Reports 190 (1997)

A. Grunseit and S. Kippax, "Effects of Sex Education on Young People's Sexual Behavior" (Geneva: World Health Organization, 1993)

 

[desi]

I can show you many that show how it isn`t used for a lifetime.

The despicable thing is that most of these abstinence only programs laud their own work in the middle schools but fail to mention the stats on their students once they get to high school and college.

They take a miserable nose dive.

Abstinence until marriage is a quaint idea that works every time to prevent things from STDs to unwanted pregnancy when it is used by both partners. Such antiquated behavior was once the norm, it has become the exception because society tolerates sex before marriage. Can any of you offer a study which suggests education of 'safe sex' helps to curb STDs or unwanted pregnancy? It might just be idealistic of me to think so, but since society has accepted sex out of marriage it seems to have become more common along with STD's and single parenthood which all studies agree is bad both socially and socioeconomically for the family.

 

[painted wolf]

actually the quaint idea is that 'back in the day' we didn't have teen pregnancy, STD's and pre-marital sex... its a pipe dream, it never happined. No ammount of legislation will make it happin. The old days were never a eutopia.

wa:do

 

[Sunstone]

actually the quaint idea is that 'back in the day' we didn't have teen pregnancy, STD's and pre-marital sex... its a pipe dream, it never happined.

Someone once said "Every generation thinks it's the first to discover sex". Obviously, Desi is among those who think his generation invented sex. But, Painted Wolf, you are very correct to point out that teenage pregnancy, STD's, and pre marital sex have been around for a long time. Probably as long as our species has been around.

 

[linwood]

Abstinenece until marraige makes it impossible for homosexuals to ever have sex in this country.

I don`t happen to believe marriage is a necessary step in a lasting relationship.

Considering the fact that well over 50% of marraiges don`t last abstinence until marriage is more than a quaint idea.
It`s ridiculous.

Studies?

Ok...

The first I will mention is the drop off rate of teen pregancy between 1988 and 1996 when almost all sex-ed classes taught contraception.

Considering funding and awards for teaching abstinence only in school districts didn`t go into effect until 1999 the decline of teen pregnancy cannot be attributed to it since what was being taught was a mixture of abstinence only and contraceptive use.

Alan Guttmacher Institute Report

Why is teen pregancy declining?
The roles of abstinence,sexual activity, and contraceptive use.

one-quarter of the drop in teenage pregnancy in the early and mid 1990s is attributable to delayed onset of sexual activity, but three-quarters is due to improved contraceptive use among sexually experienced teenagers.
http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/or_teen_preg_decline.html

I`ve got more if you want `em

 

[linwood]

actually the quaint idea is that 'back in the day' we didn't have teen pregnancy, STD's and pre-marital sex... its a pipe dream, it never happined. No ammount of legislation will make it happin. The old days were never a eutopia.

wa:do

However the rise in contraception use resulted in a decrease of teen preganacy AND abortion.

Throughout the history of the USA teen pregancy rates rose steadily until the 90`s when AID`s scared everyone into pushing safe sex.
This resulted in this lower preganacy/abortion rate .

There are enough stats to show that it works..for the first time in this countrys history it has significantly lowered yet so many are still screaming for the abstinence only crap that has proven itself ineffective over the long haul.

I don`t get it.

 

[linwood]

It doesn`t help that what they are teaching kids is a lie.

CNN
"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Federally funded abstinence education programs that are used in 25 states contain false and misleading information about contraception, abortion and sexually transmitted diseases, said Rep. Henry Waxman."

Media Matters
"Proponents of abstinence-only sexual education curricula for public schools took to the airwaves to respond to charges contained in a report issued by Rep. Henry Waxman (D-CA) that found that "over 80%" of the curricula of federally funded abstinence-only education programs "contain false, misleading or distorted information about reproductive health." But in attempting to counter these charges, these advocates proffered more misinformation."

Waxman Report
"The report finds that over 80% of the abstinence-only curricula, used by over two thirds\par of SPRANS grantees in 2003, contain false, misleading, or distorted\par information about reproductive health."