Sex, Gender, Expression, Attraction; some definitions (?)

[icehorse]

Taking a nod from Confucius, as I do, I thought I'd offer some definitions for debate or agreement. (Taken from GenderBread.org):

Anatomical Sex (sex): Sex (sometimes called biological sex, anatomical sex, or physical sex) is comprised of things like genitals, chromosomes, hormones, body hair, and more. But one thing it’s not: gender.

Gender Identity: Your psychological sense of self. Who you, in your head, know yourself to be, based on how much you align (or don’t align) with what you understand to be the options for gender.

Gender Expression: The ways you present gender, through your actions, clothing, demeanor, and more. Your outward-facing self, and how that’s interpreted by others based on gender norms.

Attraction: Like sex, attraction isn’t really a component of gender. However, we often conflate sexual orientation with gender, or categorize the attraction we experience in gendered ways.

Starting with these definitions:

sex: seems clear, it's biology.
gender identity: This is where a trans person might feel as though they got the wrong body, correct?
gender expression: would a cross dresser be an example? (e.g. a cis male, who dresses as a woman?) not sure!
attraction: I'm guessing this is where gay men and lesbians fit in?

So, any thoughts, corrections?

An Adorable, Accessible Way to Explain a Complicated Concept » The Genderbread Person

 

[Estro Felino]

I think that in the 21st centuries gender expressions or gender features are extremely subjective. Relative and partial.

What is manly or masculine to me, may not be for you, and viceversa.
Same as for femininity.

 

[Shaul]

Taking a nod from Confucius, as I do, I thought I'd offer some definitions for debate or agreement. (Taken from GenderBread.org):

Anatomical Sex (sex): Sex (sometimes called biological sex, anatomical sex, or physical sex) is comprised of things like genitals, chromosomes, hormones, body hair, and more. But one thing it’s not: gender.

Gender Identity: Your psychological sense of self. Who you, in your head, know yourself to be, based on how much you align (or don’t align) with what you understand to be the options for gender.

Gender Expression: The ways you present gender, through your actions, clothing, demeanor, and more. Your outward-facing self, and how that’s interpreted by others based on gender norms.

Attraction: Like sex, attraction isn’t really a component of gender. However, we often conflate sexual orientation with gender, or categorize the attraction we experience in gendered ways.

Starting with these definitions:

sex: seems clear, it's biology.
gender identity: This is where a trans person might feel as though they got the wrong body, correct?
gender expression: would a cross dresser be an example? (e.g. a cis male, who dresses as a woman?) not sure!
attraction: I'm guessing this is where gay men and lesbians fit in?

So, any thoughts, corrections?

An Adorable, Accessible Way to Explain a Complicated Concept » The Genderbread Person

I reject your definitions.
No, sex is not just biology. It is more than just that. No, anatomical sex is gender. No, "gender expression" is a shibboleth of the "trans" community. No, attraction certainly has a gender component. I reject your definitions and do not concede to you to define the debate nor the definitions.

 

[syo]

My last brain cell died.

 

[Kfox]

Gender Identity: Your psychological sense of self. Who you, in your head, know yourself to be, based on how much you align (or don’t align) with what you understand to be the options for gender.

When I think of my psychological sense of self, I think of my values, my beliefs, the type of person I perceive myself to be, the type of people I would rather/not rather associate with, yeah my gender identity might be a part of it, but it is not a major part of it.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

gender identity: This is where a trans person might feel as though they got the wrong body, correct?

I would add to that that a trans person might not feel as though they are in the "wrong body" to be trans.

gender expression: would a cross dresser be an example? (e.g. a cis male, who dresses as a woman?) not sure!

All gendered modes of dress are an example of gender expression, yes.

 

[JDMS]

Very excited for the day when people stop spending so much time thinking about trans people. I'm tired of being the hot-button issue.

 

[Estro Felino]

Very excited for the day when people stop spending so much time thinking about trans people. I'm tired of being the hot-button issue.

I totally agree.
I think heterosexual cisgender people should spend more time on having sex, than to think of what transsexuals do or are.

Certain people have too little sex, in my opinion.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Very excited for the day when people stop spending so much time thinking about trans people. I'm tired of being the hot-button issue.

Oh God, remember the times long, long ago when there were literally ANY other issues?

I think it might have been the forties. I think there was some kind of war on that wasn't about trans people.

Or maybe it was...? I think the current culture war is colouring my perception of past events...

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I reject your definitions.
No, sex is not just biology. It is more than just that. No, anatomical sex is gender. No, "gender expression" is a shibboleth of the "trans" community. No, attraction certainly has a gender component. I reject your definitions and do not concede to you to define the debate nor the definitions.

The problem is that in effect neuroscience seems to show that brains can be gendered differently than anatomical sex.

 

[wellwisher]

Taking a nod from Confucius, as I do, I thought I'd offer some definitions for debate or agreement. (Taken from GenderBread.org):

Anatomical Sex (sex): Sex (sometimes called biological sex, anatomical sex, or physical sex) is comprised of things like genitals, chromosomes, hormones, body hair, and more. But one thing it’s not: gender.

Gender Identity: Your psychological sense of self. Who you, in your head, know yourself to be, based on how much you align (or don’t align) with what you understand to be the options for gender.

Gender Expression: The ways you present gender, through your actions, clothing, demeanor, and more. Your outward-facing self, and how that’s interpreted by others based on gender norms.

Attraction: Like sex, attraction isn’t really a component of gender. However, we often conflate sexual orientation with gender, or categorize the attraction we experience in gendered ways.

Starting with these definitions:

sex: seems clear, it's biology.
gender identity: This is where a trans person might feel as though they got the wrong body, correct?
gender expression: would a cross dresser be an example? (e.g. a cis male, who dresses as a woman?) not sure!
attraction: I'm guessing this is where gay men and lesbians fit in?

So, any thoughts, corrections?

An Adorable, Accessible Way to Explain a Complicated Concept » The Genderbread Person

Gender choice is similar to taking your parent's family sedan, into the woods, off roading, pretending it is a Jeep. You can do it, but it was not really designed for that purpose. The Jeep or pick up truck was designed for that purpose.

The gender confusion appears to have begun with contemporary feminism. It was claimed that men and women were equal and that the traditional roles for men; bread winner and women; house wife and mother, were called nothing but social constructs by 1970's Liberalism.

The term social construct meant that there was no differences between men and women, even though there were obvious differences such as in sports. However, since Liberalism is about fad making, the young people and women were taught and required to accept this faulty foundation premise. Men did not buy into this, as easily; one difference lingered.

Although men and women were considered equal interchangeable parts, eventually the men who resisted the social construct of homogeneity, were singled out as toxic. This is when the push toward homogeneity diverged, into the dual standard. Women and men were equal, but men were toxic and women were not toxic, but equal. Men are predators and women are victims. That was the new social construct.

This gender bending Liberal social construct morphed to these latest trans fads, with young men wanting to be equal, like women; dress up, but not be equal to toxic men; normal male. It is not a coincidence that men are more likely to trans morph into women, since the cattle chute was set up that up way. The girls then follow the boys; where the boys are.

We need to come back to the original claim of Liberalism, that gender roles were social constructs; taught. The Left demonstrated this, by create several self fulfilling prophesies. Don't be sucked in, accepting the faulty premise, that trans is natural, since is was the end product of a multi-decade social construct project.

What I think is interesting is the forced invasion of trans males into women's sports. Men and women's sports was a natural compromise of equal opportunity, separated by sex, to account for natural differences between men and women. Trans males in women's sport, would result in the differences between biological men and women, depriving women of opportunities to gain all the positives that sports among equals can provide. Men and women were never equal, like the faulty premise and now the premise is understood by women in sports. This overreach was useful, since it back fired and now indicate the pendulum is about to reverse.

The Durham report tells us how the Left has misinformed everyone, condemning one side of the argument; truth, while supporting self serving lies and illusions. The above analysis, although not in the Durham report, was part of that strategy. My advice is to put off any major changes to your body, since the current social construct fad has an expiration date.

 

[icehorse]

Very excited for the day when people stop spending so much time thinking about trans people. I'm tired of being the hot-button issue.

Me too. And part of the reason for the OP is that I see so much "talking past each other" and using ill defined terms and strawmanning and such.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Me too. And part of the reason for the OP is that I see so much "talking past each other" and using ill defined terms and strawmanning and such.

Well, the core problem is that as long as how someone understand this has an element of subjectivity, you can't define your way of it, because other humans will in effect just think/feel differently.
I get what you are trying to do, but in itself playing definitions won't solve anything.

 

[Shaul]

The problem is that in effect neuroscience seems to show that brains can be gendered differently than anatomical sex.

You mean like delusions, fantasies and confusion? You got me there.

 

[JDMS]

Me too. And part of the reason for the OP is that I see so much "talking past each other" and using ill defined terms and strawmanning and such.

Frankly, I don't care about people talking past each other anymore. I want people to stop talking about us, and leave us alone. I'm tired of hearing my existence, sanity, and validity questioned at every turn. A mention here or there is no problem. But we've become the talking point of every ****ing politician and average Joe who's sitting around drinking coffee in the morning without a care in the world, because he knows that when he closes that RF tab, or article, or Facebook post, he can go back to being average Joe, and not a god-forsaken spectacle who may not have the same rights or comforts he had today when he wakes up tomorrow.

So yes, I'm sick of it, and I want people to forget about us.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You mean like delusions, fantasies and confusion? You got me there.

No, actual differences in brains as relevant to how male, female and trans brains work.

 

[Shaul]

No, actual differences in brains as relevant to how male, female and trans brains work.

Spoken like a true believer and an indoctrinated woke person. Funny how these differences are only now being discovered and only in certain cultures and countries. You are spouting nonsense.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Spoken like a true believer and an indoctrinated woke person. Funny how these differences are only now being discovered and only in certain cultures and countries. You are spouting nonsense.

Trans people have always existed in different cultures and countries. Some cultures explicitly recognize non-binary gender identities, too.

It seems to me that it takes much more ideological bias to actively deny current science than it does to simply accept that human psychology and identities are diverse, as decades of research have demonstrated numerous times.

 

[Father Heathen]

Very excited for the day when people stop spending so much time thinking about trans people. I'm tired of being the hot-button issue.

But you're a convenient and politically advantageous moral panic. Gotta scare the votes outta the simple folk.

 

[Shaul]

Trans people have always existed in different cultures and countries. Some cultures explicitly recognize non-binary gender identities, too.

It seems to me that it takes much more ideological bias to actively deny current science than it does to simply accept that human psychology and identities are diverse, as decades of research have demonstrated numerous times.

No, they haven't. The "trans" movement is a pernicious zeitgeist and a shibboleth.