Sexism and sexualization in the media.

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

I do. From almost every genre. I don't share quite every opinion @Sartre has (I think that depictions of women in video games is more a reflection of current attitudes towards women in fiction than causing them), but I agree on most everything else.

See i'm trying to think of a woman being objectified or sexualized in one of the games I've played lately. The only one I can think of is command and conquer where for some reason my elite sniper soviet lady is in booty shorts with her tits out. But in things like dark souls, rainbow six siege , call of duty infinite warfare, payday 2, payday, fallout 4 , eternal crusade, dawn of war, xcom, ect ect I can't really think of any major sexualization though.

Is it just the games i'm playing? Cause I would never play a game like LOL or smite. Tabletop it's a lot easier to point out weird examples of sexualized stuff though. But even games like infinity have moved away from that where all of the newer sculpts for the female soldiers are a far cry from the early days of everyone wearing outfits that could only belong in a sci fi porn parody.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

See i'm trying to think of a woman being objectified or sexualized in one of the games I've played lately. The only one I can think of is command and conquer where for some reason my elite sniper soviet lady is in booty shorts with her tits out. But in things like dark souls, rainbow six siege , call of duty infinite warfare, payday 2, payday, fallout 4 , eternal crusade, dawn of war, xcom, ect ect I can't really think of any major sexualization though.

Is it just the games i'm playing? Cause I would never play a game like LOL or smite. Tabletop it's a lot easier to point out weird examples of sexualized stuff though. But even games like infinity have moved away from that where all of the newer sculpts for the female soldiers are a far cry from the early days of everyone wearing outfits that could only belong in a sci fi porn parody.

I agree that we've made great strides in just ten years. But I do believe there are still problems, and that it's a range, not a line. I also can like something while still pointing out weaknesses I feel are there. Like with the first page Overwatch example, which was fairly recent.

And yeah, mobas I feel are probably the most toxic to women outside fighting games. But we are getting better on those fronts, too.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

I have a steam library over 300+ and I have played MMO's since a young age to some extent.

I generally outright avoid games which are overly sexualized.

See that surprises me cause I've never really encountered any of this.

 

[SomeRandom]

Firstly, I apologize good sir or madam, for taking so long to respond.

Because the depiction of women in most triple A games which are not targeted at kids, objectify women, rather than empower them.

That's your interpretation. And really that's what a lot of it comes down to. Because not everyone agrees on what constitutes objectification.The definition is surprisingly broad.
And please, like us ladies aren't looking at the ripped torso of Kratos, the ever so buff Batman, Dante or even (if you buff him up) CJ in San Andreas with a bit of a wink and smile. (Hell in that game you could make him run around in nothing but his underwear.) Like, girl please!
Though it would be nice to have regular clothing that is same for both genders. But that doesn't happen in real life (like seriously the young girls clothing section in stores makes one's head spin.) So, yeah we'd have to figure that out first before complaining about games imo. Games are just a product of their environment after all.

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I would be surprised if you could show me more than one instance of a female considering it a power fantasy.

You know, there is a thing called sex positive feminism?
I'd be willing to wager there are many females who find such depictions as empowering. I mean what is empowering to one woman is objectification to another. We women folk tend to have very varying opinions on such things. We're weird like that.
I mean hell, Bayonetta still makes the rounds in cosplay as far as I am aware.

Now granted, I don't play Smite or whatever so I do not know specifically what percentages of female players would consider them power fantasies one way or the other. But you know, you could ask them instead of just saying it's objectification. Just a thought.

Grand Theft Audio is a series of popular games.

Generally women's involvement in the series consists of prostitutes which have no characterization and no purpose beyond being a thing for the male player to use.

Eh, it's GTA. This is like complaining that South Park does crude humour. Also there are actually many female NPCs who are not prostitutes or mere playthings, though they are often catalysts for certain missions/events. Tanisha, Denise Clinton, Tonya who you help out on her tow truck jobs, Amanda, and Tracey from V, Kate, Elizabeta (who you essentially work for,) Mallory and Michelle/Karen from IV, Kendl from SA and Catalina from 3 and SA are certainly not prostitutes. And not forgetting, of course, each of the prospective girlfriends in each game. Each with their own ideas on what constitutes a good time, good meal and good boyfriend. Each character has their own unique personality, job as far as story goes and their own goals in, er pixelated life.
But like the vast majority of GTA NPCs a lot of them are usually just background characters to help establish the realism of the city/location you're in. As is in all games. You can even briefly engage in conversation with them when wandering around. Prostitutes exist in the game the same way random female retail workers do.
Prostitutes are just the most known aspect of GTA, arguably down to YouTube videos and Rockstar's own marketing ploys. I mean yeah you can pick them up, have sex with them and then kill and rob them. But you can do that to literally any NPC wandering around the street, minus having sex with them obviously. Either way, that got old like 2 generations ago. We've moved on to blowing random **** up or I dunno, modding and destroying cars. My friends and I like to play a game to see who can out run a 5 star police rating the longest.
Having said that, as a longtime fan, I personally would thoroughly like a female protag in any upcoming installments and far more female participation in general. I mean there are many of us female fans, but you know, marketing demographics and all. Oh well, at least I have Saints Row to fill that niche.

 

[SomeRandom]

Not everyone agrees on what's sexist and what's not.
Not everyone agrees on what's racist and what's not.
Not everyone agrees on what's xenophobic and what's not.
Should I just withhold my positions because some people disagree?

Of course not. Just like I don't withhold my positions because they are not the most mainstream or "popular" opinions of say, feminist "ideals." Or what have you. This is why we have debates and forums, isn't it?
I was just saying that instead of labeling something as absolutely X, that maybe one could also consider that it's also entirely up for debate at the same time?

I think both can be figured out side by side, no?

It's possible I suppose. I'm not against going for both.
But games, like all media, are not only a reflection of society. They aim to give society what it wants in order to make money, yeah? So if society continuously supports say skimpy outfits for young girls, why would video games change? They have seen the support for it, they want peoples' money, so they will follow suit.
Video games are the consequence, not the catalyst. In order to really change the landscape we should be trying to change societal ideals. That's the most efficient way that I see.

 

[SomeRandom]

My apologies. I misinterpreted what you said.

No problem. I was probably not entirely clear.

Well if I think something is racist or sexist, I am going to label it accordingly, and explain why I think so.

And that's not only acceptable but admirable. I would encourage everyone to do so.
Personally, I am constantly trying to challenge my own worldview and I often do this by playing a sort of "Devil's Advocate."

I agree that one can learn a lot about society through an art form, but I think
"Art is not a mirror to hold up to society, but a hammer with which to shape it."
encapsulates my opinion on the subject more.

Hmm, I can see the merit in that way of thinking. It's why satire exists, is it not? So I probably do agree with you more than I disagree.
Though I am quite passionate about gaming, I guess I might not hold it up in a very high esteem. I just don't think it has all that power to shape society. Not the way books and other outlets can. But I will concede it can be a powerful medium.

I don't think the issue is skimpy outfits in and of themselves.

I agree completely. The real issue with "skimpy outfits" isn't that they exist, it's the surrounding opinions of women who wear them. "Oh, she must be a cheap whore because she shows that much skin."
I mean it exists in video games too. Oh that female character is wearing nothing at all, she's an object.
I am of the opinion that if we do really mean that a woman should be free to wear whatever she wants, that we shouldn't be so quick to demonize portrayals of women in skimpy outfits in any medium. Though again, I do want more diverse clothing options in games for ladies.
This actually gets creepier when you look at what some (admittedly probably isolated) American schools are in the headlines for lately. The girls shop in stores which sell relatively skimpy outfits, they wear the outfits their gender is sold and then told by schools that they are "a distraction" and should dress more "modestly."
Granted that's more of an American thing, since where I live we have school uniforms. But it's worth looking into all the same. Is it right to sell skimpy outfits to prepubescent children? Is asking such a question, by default, sexualising them? Are we teaching them to view these clothes in a certain way? Is it appropriate, inappropriate? Is it right to label some women a certain way just because they wear skimpy outfits?
There's more to this then them simply existing. But their existence contains implications in and of itself.