Shakta Discussion

[Poeticus]

OH like Kalikula!

... Kalikula is of theological importance. A kuldevi, on the other hand, is of socio-cultural importance; the kuldevi is the Goddess of a particular tribe or clan, of a particular society of people. Kalikula signifies the worship of Kali Maa in general, not restricted to a particular society of people.

 

[Kalidas]

... Kalikula is of theological importance. A kuldevi, on the other hand, is of socio-cultural importance; the kuldevi is the Goddess of a particular tribe or clan, of a particular society of people. Kalikula signifies the worship of Kali Maa in general, not restricted to a particular society of people.

I guess that word "kula" was throwing me off

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Here is Harsidhhi Ma.
She is happy for your devotion.

Om Namah Sivaya

Thank you Shivafan! And do you know the names of the figures to either side of her? Or are they simply her attendants?

:camp:

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

... She is a folk deity of various Hindu ethno-linguistic communities of [North] India. In other words, her application is as a kuldevi (Community Goddess, Clan Goddess, Tribal Goddess). She has temples in various places, not just in Rajasthan. She is the Goddess of various kshatriya groups along with various fishermen groups. For more context: Kuladevata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Thank you! Yes, I'd read the Wikipedia page but wondered if there was any further information. Thank you for clearing up the term 'kuldevi'.

:camp:

 

[Poeticus]

Thank you! Yes, I'd read the Wikipedia page but wondered if there was any further information. Thank you for clearing up the term 'kuldevi'.

:camp:

Happy to have helped, Fireside. In regards to the accompanied mUrti-s beside the central Harsiddhi Ma ...

... Unless someone from a particular tribe or clan that holds Harsiddhi Ma as his/her Kuldevi can socio-culturally confirm, I can only speculate and state that they are: 1) representative of various forms of Harsiddhi Ma, or 2) Amba Ma and another more well-known Shakti Devi. I searched but couldn't find any information that could closely confirm these two speculations, however.

 

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste,

I have been in the midst of relocating, so have not been able to spend time online;
perhaps sharing some general Devi-oriented websites might be welcomed, for both
those here, and those yet to visit this thread? I have tried to select sites that are
sincere and informative, and not sensationalistic, "new-age", or peddling anything.
Of course, the usual disclaimers concerning affiliation, views, agency, and
any other assorted legalese apply- I endeavor only to help encourage learning more
about Devi Some may be more traditional, some may be more esoteric; some may
be more online expressions of bhakti, others might seem oriented toward visitors
with a Western background- but it is my hope that in exploring, something of
benefit may be found, even if only a jumping-off point to learn further.


Here is one that has not been updated in a bit, but has more on kuldevis etc. (including
a link to a Harsiddhi Maa site FSH ) Just to warn, it will start playing bhajans on loading, this can be startling..

Here is another Shakta site with some articles and pictures of interest.

Here is another site with some pictures, audio, and PDF/DJVU books.

Here is a site all about Maa Durga.

Here is a site with "online yatras"- many nice photos, book scans, etc.; not specifically Shakta, but certainly enjoyable.

Two sites which may come across as "Western-flavored", but are worth investigating
are Shakti Sadhana, which has been around for a while,and the California-based but quite sincere
Sri Kamakhya Mahavidya Mandir's site.

I'm sure there are more that I am forgetting, but sleep is calling..

Indiadivine.org and Indusladies.com also have good Devi/Shakta discussion threads.

I hope again this is useful, feedback is welcomed- my apologies for any errors
or if such a link-collection is not considered appropriate.

JAI MATA DI

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

I hope again this is useful, feedback is welcomed- my apologies for any errors
or if such a link-collection is not considered appropriate.

JAI MATA DI

Thank you again for the contribution! It will take us some time to go through the lnks but I look forward to it. :namaste:

 

[Kalidas]

Awesome! Thanks for the links I will have to look those up when I'm at home and not on my phone.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Thanks, JaiMaaDurga. Some news from India. Jammu is now connected to Katra by rail, the point where the foot journey to the shrine of Mata Vaishno Devi, the most important Mata Shrine in North India, begins. Narendra Modi, the new Indian prime minister will visit the Mother's place towards the end of the month.

 

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste,

I am thinking this might be a good thread to post this in- others have noticed this long before me,
but there is a fascinating connection between Maa Kali and the Egyptian goddess Hathor, as well as the Canaanite goddess Anat.

In the Egyptian tale "Hathor's Rage and the Destruction of Mankind", the goddess is sent by Ra to slay all blasphemers, and takes the form of Sekhmet to do so;
once having begun and drinking the blood of the slain, she becomes intoxicated with rage and does not stop, until, in consternation, Ra has a sedative beer brewed, colored red,
and placed before her. Believing it to be blood, she drinks and falls asleep, wakening as peaceful Hathor, and forgetting her rage.

The connection with Anat may be seen in this snippet from a Wikipedia article (bold emphasis mine):

In a fragmentary passage from Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra), Syria[1] ‘Anat appears as a fierce, wild and furious warrior in a battle, wading knee-deep in blood,
striking off heads, cutting off hands, binding the heads to her torso and the hands in her sash.

While it is popular for Western archaeologists to surmise that various forms of Devi traveled and were adopted West to East, must this necessarily be so?
To me, Devi in various names and forms was once worshiped by all people everywhere- and only in Her current piths (and some other places)
has Her worship continued relatively uninterrupted. I do know that my particular view may not be agreed with by many, but after much study and prayer,
this is the view that Devi sees fit for me to hold

I would welcome the thoughts of fellow members, especially fellow Shaktas.

JAI MATA DI

 

[Aupmanyav]

JaiMaaDurga, I do not think that Sumerians and Egyptians borrowed anything from India or that India borrowed anything from them. Indian society was much insulated. There was some migration of Aryans from Central Asia, but Indians did not adopt the Vedic Gods except for Vishnu and Saraswati. They continued worshiping their Gods and Goddesses (Shiva, Durga, Rama, Krishna, etc.).

 

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste Aup,

The West-to-East I mentioned was in reference to various theories I have come across suggesting that Maa Durga
in particular had Her origins in Mesopotamia, and gradually through various cultures and kingdoms traveled across the mountains
into Bharat- but, as you say, I do not believe this to be so. I am not necessarily suggesting that the older Western civilizations such as
the Egyptians or Sumerians borrowed from what would have been the contemporaneous IVC/Harappan culture, since while there is
evidence of trade, there is no evidence of the introduction of new religious practices or deities on either side, during or after the period
of trade.

What I find remarkable is the coincidences, due to the very insulation you mention. Neither the Egyptian or the Ugaritic
texts I referred to were known to the West until relatively recently, when their translation was possible- and Maa Kali's tales and attributes
were certainly not widely known in the West.

While there is no one who can state with utter certainty what the practices and beliefs of peoples living before preserved written records
can attest to, there indeed seems to be (to me) goodly evidence that Devi has been worshipped in some form in all parts of the globe for
many thousands of years. Perhaps as an atheist, you are unconcerned with the spiritual aspect of my belief in this, and this would be understandable-
but I am also one who holds great stock in the scientific method, and believe that what I have written about is worthy of some interest,
in light of the available historical and archaeological facts.

JAI MATA DI

 

[Aupmanyav]

Perhaps as an atheist, you are unconcerned with the spiritual aspect of my belief in this, and this would be understandable - but I am also one who holds great stock in the scientific method, and believe that what I have written about is worthy of some interest, in light of the available historical and archaeological facts.

Oh, no, JMD. My atheism does not interfere in my cultural values. The Mothers are as dear to me as to you. I agree that Indians traded with Dilmun since times immemorial from Lothal and Dwarika in Gujarat and there was a trade route connecting Dwarika with Uttara Patha (Northern way - Silk Road). Sindhis and Gujaratis were successful in trade at that time also just as they are now. But I see no evidence of insertion of foreign religious views except to a certain extent in case of Aryan migration. Principally because Aryans settled permanently in India and mixed with the native population. Sage Parashara traditionally being the first by cohabiting with Satyavati to beget Sage VedaVyasa.

Lothal, Gujarat.

 

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste Aup,

So we are in agreement then, concerning the lack of evidence for insertion of foreign religious views.
Perhaps slightly off the subject of the original post- I had recently come across what I find to be one of the most fascinating artifacts
of the IVC/Harappan era- perhaps you and others will also find it intriguing:

http://a.harappa.com/sites/g/files/g65461/f/Spiked-Throne.pdf

Of course, I tend to think it is Devi on the throne

JAI MATA DI

 

[Aupmanyav]

Very nice article. But the paucity of corroborative evidence does not tell us much, as also in the case of 'the seated ascetic' (Pashupati). Yes, it was perhaps a ratha (chariot) of a deity who gave 'darshan' (audience) from that high position and perhaps even spoke to the worshipers.

 

[Fireside_Hindu]

Given my limited understanding of human migration through the millenia, I think there are other possibilities too. The Egyptian goddess and Kali probably have the same common "ancestor" and when groups of people broke off and traveled and settled in new lands they brought her with them. Another is that maybe these ideas evolved separately. There are pyramids all over the world from drastically different cultures and times and most of them had no way of being in contact with each other. Human groups share lots of sensibilities so its not unthinkable that the same ideas would emerge in separate places.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Agree. Common ancestors as in the case of humans are possible.

 

[ShivaFan]

I was a little hesitant (well, sort of a lot hesitant) to even post this, yet this thread is so very interesting. The reason I am posting this may confuse some. Let me explain.

I am NOT saying Durga came from the Ishtar tradition. But I think it is very likely that Durga’s “presence” extends much further than some imagine. Of course today, temples to Durga are found all over the world. In the example of Ishtar, it may not be that Ishtar preceded Durga, what I think we have here is that Durga came to be realized in Mesopotamia and then the existing Ishtar name was given to Durga. The existing Ishtar still having Her own genre, but the Durga for this Ishtar isn’t that genre but actually Durga given that name.

Ishtar (Mesopotamian) riding Lion – Neo-Assyrian seal 750BC (British Museum)

Ishtar of Arbela riding Lion – Assyrian stone stele circa 900BC

Qetesh (Egyptian) riding Lion – XIX Dynasty circa 1290 BC (Egyptian Museum)

Now one aspect to consider is the Asiatic Lion. It exists in India. But it once was all over Iran, Mesopotamia, Egypt and so on. It would still show up in the gladiator fights of the Romans, this included the more ancient form. The more ancient form, now extinct, had a much more bushy chest with the mane extending much further down into the chest and then like a thin mane running the underside almost back to the backside, and the bush at the end of the tail was much larger, than the African Lion. Today we still have Lions in different parts of the world – for example here in California we have the Mountain Lion, which very much resembles the Florida “Panther”. The males do not have the mane, but they do have black hairs on the ear tips, very big. Have you ever heard a Mountain Lion up close? I have – they can make a “bird sound”, I am not kidding, it is exactly as a bird tweeting. Really an amazing thing! They of course have the Mountain Lion growl or call. The Qetesh (above) reminds me of our California Mountain Lion. Notice she holds a lotus and two snakes.

So in one way, I sort of see the Lion as Durga’s very strong link to “this world”, the planet earth. Devi Durga is definably our Patron. And humans have felt Her presence for a very long, long time.

UPDATE: Opps! I should add Durga also! Here from 800AD India:

 

[Aupmanyav]

I agree with you. The same for male Gods; Thor with mjolnir and Indra with vajra. Others have bows and arrows or spears. And, of course, Dyavah, Zeus, Jupiter, etc. But then Ionians were long-lost brothers of Aryans.

 

[JaiMaaDurga]

Namaste,

What FSH and ShivaFan have posted do echo many of my thoughts as well. Again, while the similarities between Hathor and Maa Kali's
"blood-intoxication needing subsequent external intervention to save all from destruction" may be more general and thematic in nature, the
reference to Anat's wearing a garland of heads and a girdle of hands, was strikingly specific in terms of iconography; and since no visual depictions
of Anat show this particular form, it makes no sense for a scholar to claim some statue/stele etc. somehow managed to travel between Bharat
and Canaan- the Lothal/Dilmun trade evidence again not supporting any religious transmission in either direction.
ShivaFan made reference to Ishtar and Qetesh; interestingly, Qetesh is a good example of religious transmission/adoption, being originally Canaanite, rather than Egyptian..

This is known as the "Triple Goddess Stone" due to the inscription reading as "Qeteshet, Astarte, Anat".

Here is a picture of Ishtar's Sumerian antecedent Inanna:

Here is the Hurrian/Hittite goddess Hebat, in middle right, on a lion:

Along with lion vehicles, there is often found a common descriptor to the effect of "Lady of/Daughter of the Mountain"... which, of course,
should be familiar to some here in the context of Devi

In any case, thanks to all who are replying- it is good to read the thoughtfulness expressed!

JAI MATA DI