Shame on Islam! Shame! Shame!

[DakotaGypsy]

Popeye, I am well aware of what a woman's status was at the time the Koran was written. I have repeatedly said that the Koran was probably the most progressive document of its time in regard to the status of women.

However, that was then. We are in Now and times have changed enormously---

But the Koran has not!!!

How many centuries have passed since that time? Do you not realize that humanity has advanced since then?

Even if patriarchal religions refuse to acknowledge the passage of time and the changing of human mores.

Another really big problem with religion! Locked in the past. Not being present now. Not considering the changes that the future will bring.

 

[jewscout]

Another really big problem with religion! Locked in the past. Not being present now. Not considering the changes that the future will bring.

that is based on opinion, not fact.

 

[TashaN]

Popeye, I am well aware of what a woman's status was at the time the Koran was written. I have repeatedly said that the Koran was probably the most progressive document of its time in regard to the status of women.

However, that was then. We are in Now and times have changed enormously---

But the Koran has not!!!

How many centuries have passed since that time? Do you not realize that humanity has advanced since then?

Even if patriarchal religions refuse to acknowledge the passage of time and the changing of human mores.

Another really big problem with religion! Locked in the past. Not being present now. Not considering the changes that the future will bring.

When Muslims says "mistakenly" that these rules were the best at that time so they are like saying God doesn't know that we will have this civil life we are having now which nonsense.

God is aware of the past, present and the future. Therefore, he gave us things which is suitable for ALL times but not for that time only when people were burying their girls alive out of fear of kidnapping them in wars or some other stupid reasons.


Peace ..

 

[anders]

So much for Christian love. Thank God that there are better examples.

The word "Islam" does mean peace. It is in the root of the word itself and not up for debate.

I agree with your argumentation, but not with your etymology. "Islam" menas 'submission, reconciliation (to the will of God)'; 'Peace' is "salaam".

The world Muslim community as a whole does perceive America as attacking Islam because we are. Your post is yet another example of our bigotry. And it if were truly the case, as you paint it, that every Muslim - all 1.2+ billion - would feel it his/her duty to fight America, then we would truly have a global conflagration. But we don't. Which should indicate to any rational mind that you are wrong.

The world community as a whole does perceive America as unprovokedly and without any other reasons whatsoever attacking a country which happens to be Muslim and rich in petroleum. Fortunately for you, Muslims don't see it as an attack on Islam.

How many of you know the four nations with the highest number of Muslims?

Well, it's undisputedly the oil exporter Indonesia as the No. 1. Two to four, it's poor Bangladesh and the nuclear armed India and Pakistan. Choosing your friends carefully, are you?

 

[lilithu]

I agree with your argumentation, but not with your etymology. "Islam" menas 'submission, reconciliation (to the will of God)'; 'Peace' is "salaam".

No, my etymology is correct. Technically, the word means the peace that comes through submission. Both ideas are inherent in the word. Notice that Islam and salaam end similarly.

from Dictionary.com:
[Arabic ’islm, submission, from ’aslama, to surrender, resign oneself, from Syriac ’alem, to make peace, surrender, derived stem of lem, to be complete. See lm in Semitic Roots.]

The world community as a whole does perceive America as unprovokedly and without any other reasons whatsoever attacking a country which happens to be Muslim and rich in petroleum. Fortunately for you, Muslims don't see it as an attack on Islam.

Many Muslims do see it as an attack on Islam, and they would be right. We went to war against Iraq based on the argument that we were fighting terrorism (ie - Muslim terrorists). We went to war against Aghanistan based on the argument that we were fighting terrorism (ie - Muslim terrorists). We are shaking our fists at Syria and Iran. Within the U.S., the implied message that the administration and the media has been feeding us is Muslim = Arab = terrorist. Anti-Muslim sentiment is high, as evidenced by the numerous threads attacking Islam on RF. Our born-again president believes that he was put into office by God and that it is America's duty to spread the gift of "democracy" throughout the world. Right-wing dispensationalist Christians are pouring money and political clout behind right-wing Zionists in Israel based on the belief that the Temple needs to be rebuilt before Christ can come again. If you think the only reason why we invaded a sovereign country was for oil, I respectfully suggest that you are seriously underestimating the gravity of the situation and the scope of Bush's ambitions.

Fortunately for us, even though there is the perception that America is attacking Islam, the vast majority of Muslims do not respond violently, unlike what was claimed by zorro307. Perhaps they also hopefully realize that our president does not speak for all Americans and that hopefully sanity will be restored to our nation run amok.

How many of you know the four nations with the highest number of Muslims?

Well, it's undisputedly the oil exporter Indonesia as the No. 1. Two to four, it's poor Bangladesh and the nuclear armed India and Pakistan. Choosing your friends carefully, are you?

How is this relevant to my post? Overgeneralized anti-American sentiment bothers me as much as overgeneralized anti-Muslim sentiment.

 

[jewscout]

Right-wing dispensationalist Christians are pouring money and political clout behind right-wing Zionists in Israel based on the belief that the Temple needs to be rebuilt before Christ can come again

except that the right wing LOST in the Israeli elections

are you now going to suggest that Bush will stop supporting Israel since a left-center coaltion is being formed in the Knesset?
i know Olmert could care less about the Beit HaMikdash.

 

[lilithu]

except that the right wing LOST in the Israeli elections

are you now going to suggest that Bush will stop supporting Israel since a left-center coaltion is being formed in the Knesset?
i know Olmert could care less about the Beit HaMikdash.

Why would Bush stop supporting Israel, regardless of who is in power?

Instead of reacting with defensive hostility every time the word "Zionist" is mentioned, would you recognize that there actually are such right-wing extremists in Israel just as there are such right-wing extremists in the U.S. just as there are right-wing extremists amongst the Arabs? Denying their existence does nothing to help address the tensions.

 

[jewscout]

Why would Bush stop supporting Israel, regardless of who is in power?

Instead of reacting with defensive hostility every time the word "Zionist" is mentioned, would you recognize that there actually are such right-wing extremists in Israel just as there are such right-wing extremists in the U.S. just as there are right-wing extremists amongst the Arabs? Denying their existence does nothing to help address the tensions.

apologies,
you are right, my knee-jerk response comes from to often Zionist being used to describe the whole of the State of Israel.

i am sorry.

 

[lilithu]

apologies,
you are right, my knee-jerk response comes from to often Zionist being used to describe the whole of the State of Israel.

i am sorry.

Understood. :hug: If there is a different term that I should use to avoid that confusion let me know.

 

[Popeyesays]

Popeye, I am well aware of what a woman's status was at the time the Koran was written. I have repeatedly said that the Koran was probably the most progressive document of its time in regard to the status of women.

However, that was then. We are in Now and times have changed enormously---

But the Koran has not!!!

That is why I am a Baha`i, Dakota.

The Qur'an has not changed, there is no one with authority to change it. That some interpret it wrongly is NOT the fault of Muhammad OR the Qur'an. You would paint ALL Islam with the same brush and that is illogical, unethical, prejudicial and bigoted (with all due respect).

Regards,
Scott

 

[DakotaGypsy]

Popeye, I was of the impression that the Bahai faith is not a part of Islam. Is this not true?

 

[9harmony]

Popeye, I was of the impression that the Bahai faith is not a part of Islam. Is this not true?

briefly...

Baha'i is to Islam, as Christianity is to Judiasm

 

[DakotaGypsy]

Works for me.

 

[Popeyesays]

Popeye, I was of the impression that the Bahai faith is not a part of Islam. Is this not true?

1904. Teaching of the Qur'án is Absolutely Indispensable
" ... the Guardian would certainly advise, and even urge the friends to make a thorough study of the Qur'án as the knowledge of this Sacred Scripture is absolutely indispensable for every believer who wishes to adequately understand and intelligently read the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh. Although there are very few persons among our Western Bahá'ís who are capable of handling such a course in a scholarly way yet, the mere lack of such competent teachers should encourage and stimulate the believers to get better acquainted with the Sacred Scriptures of Islam. In this way, there will gradually appear some distinguished Bahá'ís who 562 will be so well versed in the teachings of Islam as to be able to guide the believers in their study of that religion."
(From letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, December 2, 1935: Centers of Bahá'í Learning, p. 9)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 561)

Regards,
Scott

 

[EiNsTeiN]

but what about in a theocratically Islamic nation?

a good question....nowadays, it seems like muslim women are only free depending on the culture they are living in....but im really sorry to say that there is no applied islamic nation now...it was a theory, which made a great success once in the history, and made the islamic empire last for 1000 years, when women used to practice their normal life freely...

but nowaday, non of the islamic nation practice the theoritical islam...cuz islam doesnt accept partitions, by other words, either apply all islam in all fields of life, or not...

true islamic nation is that which applies islamic rules, and non except them...and this is not available right now for sorry...

http://muslimheritage.com/

 

[TashaN]

briefly...

Baha'i is to Islam, as Christianity is to Judiasm

IMHO, that's not the case.

I don't think Baha'i is to Islam, as Christianity is to Judiasm.

 

[Popeyesays]

IMHO, that's not the case.

I don't think Baha'i is to Islam, as Christianity is to Judiasm.

Well, that's probably a scriptural choice on your part. As a social phenomenon, there is no doubt that Harmony's comment is correct. It is also correct philosophically, and culturally, historically, ethnically and geographically.

If one cannot accept that there is a Manifestation after Muhammad, then one would probably balk speaking of it religiously; but that is just what the Bab and Baha`u'llah claimed.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Booko]

IMHO, that's not the case.

I don't think Baha'i is to Islam, as Christianity is to Judiasm.

For all I know, Jews may not accept the link to Christianity either, at least theologically.

Historically, I don't see there's much debate in either case. Christianity clearly has historical roots in Judaism. And likewise, the Baha'i Faith clearly has its roots in Islam.

You may well consider us heretical, but if so we are heretics of Islam, not heretics of Taoism or Wicca or Shinto.

 

[TashaN]

For all I know, Jews may not accept the link to Christianity either, at least theologically.

Historically, I don't see there's much debate in either case. Christianity clearly has historical roots in Judaism. And likewise, the Baha'i Faith clearly has its roots in Islam.

You may well consider us heretical, but if so we are heretics of Islam, not heretics of Taoism or Wicca or Shinto.

I don't deny that Baha'i faith has it's roots in islam by a way or another but the point i was trying to make that, it's not the case as Christinaity to Juadism and one of the reasons is that, the Torah doesn't contradict with the Injil in the main doctrine (i.e. the 10 commandment).

BTW, i have no idea what did you mean by mentioning that it's better to be heretics of Islam, not heretics of Taoism or Wicca or Shinto? :sarcastic

 

[TashaN]

If one cannot accept that there is a Manifestation after Muhammad, then one would probably balk speaking of it religiously; but that is just what the Bab and Baha`u'llah claimed.

Excatly dear popey, this is what i was talking about,

The jews believed in the Manifestation after Moses and they were waiting for someone to come after him to lead them to all the truth, he came but they didn't believe in him, this is a different story, but in the case of islam as you said because they didn't believe in the Manifestation after prophet Mohammed so it was different.

Nevertheless, as you said, that is just what the Bab and Baha`u'llah claimed.


Peace ..