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Shedding blood in the name of God.

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
What religion/s would boast this? My 1st thought would be Islamic. But this was said in another thread about Christianity, or more precisely, Moses. Looking back, Christianity has some pretty violent history, murdering people that from different religions. I believe Islam has a way to go before catching Christianity.. Your thoughts?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Jensa said:
I think a better question would be "which ones don't?"
Well, I haven't seen any Wicca shedding blood yet. Or go to war in the name of their religion or deities. I certainly have not seen Wiccans murdering people of other religions, as their prime motives.

Has LSD done any violence in the name of religion/god? I am not aware of their history. And though they had not gone to war, the Book of Mormon do record people fighting one another.

Jeffrey said:
Looking back, Christianity has some pretty violent history, murdering people that from different religions. I believe Islam has a way to go before catching Christianity..
As recent in the wars with Afghanistan and Iraq, Bush made several references to God, as if he was an instrument of good, and the other side being evil. And I heard some of Baptists saying that it was right for Bush to act in the name of their God to war against the evil Muslims, during his first term in office as president. Some of these Baptists are now questioning their motives and expressing their doubts about going into war in Iraq.
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
I believe blood has been shed in the NAME of almost every religion out there (and even non-religion, for that matter).
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Great post, and I agree. I believe the Mormons had a war, but it was more in self-defense. Never hear Buddhists, as far as I know, declaring war. Killing in the name of God..... If God really wants certain people dead, why not just kill them himself. Just a thought. ;)
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Jensa said:
I think a better question would be "which ones don't?"

This would be my question, as well, Jensa.

Aren't causes often fought for...in the name of God or otherwise?

Look at our country...like our current state of politics or not...our freedoms exist because of violent acts of war...blood shed...

When I think of God and think of his chastisement throughout the bible...I've never perceived a single command or instruction to be anything other than just...the underlying motive has always appeared to me to be for the better of mankind.

I guess it all boils down to one's perception of God.

Moses wasn't Christian, either...not that this matters much.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
GeneCosta said:
I believe blood has been shed in the NAME of almost every religion out there (and even non-religion, for that matter).
But not to the extent that Christianity has. How many religions have a history of murdering people just because their faith is different?
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Please correct me if I'm wrong...perhaps I'm misinformed...

But I was under the impressino that most blood shed over God and/or Christianity was to defend the right to worship God/and or Christianity...not to murder those in opposition...unless you're speaking of the Burning Times...and most Christians will tell you...those who claimed to be Christian and burnt innocent people at the stake...weren't Christians...
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
So, witches were a threat to freedom, so they were burned? the Catholic and Spanish inquisitions were a threat to freedom? And FYI, the American revolution and civil war was not about religion. Religion was part of the A.R. But more about getting out of British control.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
jeffrey said:
But not to the extent that Christianity has. How many religions have a history of murdering people just because their faith is different?

Have you noticed the violence in India between Hindus and Muslims?

Though I would argue that destroying mosques has more to do with nationalism than Hinduism.
 

Adstar

Active Member
jeffrey said:
What religion/s would boast this? My 1st thought would be Islamic. But this was said in another thread about Christianity, or more precisely, Moses. Looking back, Christianity has some pretty violent history, murdering people that from different religions. I believe Islam has a way to go before catching Christianity.. Your thoughts?

You mention Moses. In the OT it was Gods will that the Jews would be used by Him to carry out His wrath. But the Coming of the Messiah Jesus changed all that. God’s will is for us to spread the News of Jesus and Be used by God as Ambassadors of His offer of forgiveness through the Messiah Jesus.

True followers of Jesus have never engaged in mortal combat on earth since Jesus told us to love our enemies. Of course there have been many false christians and false christian organizations who have rebelled against the Words of Jesus and have taken part in combat. But that does not make Christianity a bloody religion. That just makes false Christianity a bloody religion. False christianity is Not Christianity and therefore one cannot use the action of false christians to attack Christianity.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
jeffrey said:
So, witches were a threat to freedom, so they were burned? the Catholic and Spanish inquisitions were a threat to freedom? And FYI, the American revolution and civil war was not about religion. Religion was part of the A.R. But more about getting out of British control.

I wasn't implying that witches were a threat to freedom. And I've never claimed that the supposed Christians who persecuted supposed witches were just in their actions.

Can you cite examples throughout history (other than the persecution of supposed witches and beyond the writing of the OT) where Christians have murdered for the sake of Christianity and God?

I'm not asking out of rudeness...I'm asking because I'd like to learn.

And FYI...I'm not ignorant of the reasons behind the American Revolution and Civil War.:D
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Look at the bloodshed in the name of the Christian God. Look at the OT. And as I stated in the OP, when you think of violence, your 1st thought isn't Christianity. Until you look at the history of it. Name Religion who's history can compare with the amount of deaths that Christianity has.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
jeffrey said:
Look at the bloodshed in the name of the Christian God. Look at the OT. And as I stated in the OP, when you think of violence, your 1st thought isn't Christianity. Until you look at the history of it. Name Religion who's history can compare with the amount of deaths that Christianity has.

That's what I'm kind of seeking...a history brief...so I can understand where you're coming from...
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Dawny, Look up the Catholic and Spanish inquisitions. ;) Look at what we did to Native Americans who failed to convert.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
FYI, I'm not knocking Christianity. I'm saying that "Killing in the name of God" is wrong and misguided. If God truely wanted someone dead, he could do it himself.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
A lot of times, horrible things are done in the name of Christianity when religion isn't really the issue at hand. The clearest example of this would be the Crusades. That was war over land and resources and, of course, religion threads weaved their way through the Crusades, but it wasn't the point.

The inquisitions on the other hand, were so-called Christians at their worst. I had no idea of the horrors dealt to the Native nations by "Christians" until I read de Vaca (or was it Vega?) last year. It really opened my eyes.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
jeffrey said:
FYI, I'm not knocking Christianity. I'm saying that "Killing in the name of God" is wrong and misguided. If God truely wanted someone dead, he could do it himself.

Well, God seems to be a man of many methods. Sometimes he does do it himself and sometimes he uses people.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
dawny0826 said:
Can you cite examples throughout history (other than the persecution of supposed witches and beyond the writing of the OT) where Christians have murdered for the sake of Christianity and God?
During the First Crusade -- the sack of Jerusalem in 1099 AD is arguably the most regrettable instance. No wonder the Muslims are still peeved about it.

An excerpt from Wikipedia:

"Once the Crusaders had breached the outer walls and entered the city almost every inhabitant of Jerusalem was killed over the course of that afternoon, evening and next morning. Muslims, Jews, and even any remaining Christians were all massacred with indiscriminate violence. Many Muslims sought shelter in the Al-Aqsa Mosque, where, according to one famous account in Gesta, "...the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles..." According to Raymond of Aguilers "men rode in blood up to their knees and bridle reins." Tancred claimed the Temple quarter for himself and offered protection to some of the Muslims there, but he could not prevent their deaths at the hands of his fellow crusaders. The Fatimid governor withdrew to the Tower of David, which he soon surrendered to Raymond in return for safe passage for himself and bodyguards to Ascalon. They were the only ones to escape alive."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Jerusalem_%281099%29)


This is only a bare bones account. The details would break your heart. They took babies and smashed their heads against the wall to kill them. Even their fellow Christians were not spared. It isn't just Muslim accounts that tell these tales -- Christian accounts corroborated this as well.

Some have argued that it was the worst massacre in military history.


Now, you and I both know that NO WAY did anything Jesus say ever justify any of this. But it has to be asked: what exactly happened in Christianity at the time that allowed this sort of behaviour?

The more you read about the Crusades, the more you'll see how off base things got.

So, y'know, if the Muslims are off base now and the environment in their religion makes terrorists possible, it's not like religions have never done this sort of thing before. Christianity was just over 1000 years old when this happened. Islam is also just over 1000 years old (in the 1300s, actually). Islam now is roughly the same age Christianity was when it went nuts.

Fortunately, you guys crawled back from that time, and I expect Islam will also. In the meantime, it's gonna be hell on wheels. :(
 
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