Shia Muslim - Baha'I: Period of Muslims

[InvestigateTruth]

It is recorded in a Book called Khazinatul-Jawahir that Prophet Muhammad said:

"I asked My Lord that when shall the Resurrection appear. He said: O My Friend, after 1210 years from Your immigration, murder and war will increase in the world and the world will be filled with injustice. In 1220 years after [your imigration], scholars will disappear and people will not gether together [in unity]. In 1230 years after [immigration], there will be a rain and hail from sky, like eggs which kills animals, and destroys crops, and there will be storm which ruins the lands from rain.
In 1250 years after, there will be a rain that kills most of Jinns and men, and Chasity of girls will be vanished.
In 1260 years after, the lack of water in the rivers of Neil, Tigris and Euphrates, will not let people to plant, and [at that time] the Dabbat al-Ardḍ will appear...."


In this Hadith, there are many symbols, and the allusion in the Hadith is Dabbat al-Ardḍ, which is the rise of Mahdi which is Resurrection.

https://issuu.com/payambahai/docs/estedlalye-i-sadr-u-ssodoor
Page 37
(Translation is mine)

 

[mojtaba]

It is recorded in a Book called Khazinatul-Jawahir that Prophet Muhammad said:

"I asked My Lord that when shall the Resurrection appear. He said: O My Friend, after 1210 years from Your immigration, murder and war will increase in the world and the world will be filled with injustice. In 1220 years after [your imigration], scholars will disappear and people will not gether together [in unity]. In 1230 years after [immigration], there will be a rain and hail from sky, like eggs which kills animals, and destroys crops, and there will be storm which ruins the lands from rain.
In 1250 years after, there will be a rain that kills most of Jinns and men, and Chasity of girls will be vanished.
In 1260 years after, the lack of water in the rivers of Neil, Tigris and Euphrates, will not let people to plant, and [at that time] the Dabbat al-Ardḍ will appear...."


In this Hadith, there are many symbols, and the allusion in the Hadith is Dabbat al-Ardḍ, which is the rise of Mahdi which is Resurrection.

https://issuu.com/payambahai/docs/estedlalye-i-sadr-u-ssodoor
Page 37
(Translation is mine)

1. I can not find that book to check it.
But, I assume that that hadith is in that book and so I answer you as following,

2.According to the authentic Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad and Imams, every hadith which opposes with Quran, is indeed a fake one which liars have made.

This fake hadith says that Prophet Muhammad knew when is the time of Resurrection, while Quran says Prophet Muhammad was not aware of it,

Quran, Chapter 21

The Day[ Resurrection ] We shall roll up the heaven, like rolling of the scrolls [meant] for writings...(104) But if they turn away, say[ O Muhammad ], ‘I have proclaimed to you all alike, and I do not know whether What you have been promised[ Day of Resurrection ] is far or near.(109)

 

[InvestigateTruth]

1. I can not find that book to check it.
But, I assume that that hadith is in that book and so I answer you as following,

2.According to the authentic Hadiths of Prophet Muhammad and Imams, every hadith which opposes with Quran, is indeed a fake one which liars have made.

This fake hadith says that Prophet Muhammad knew when is the time of Resurrection, while Quran says Prophet Muhammad was not aware of it,

Quran, Chapter 21

The Day[ Resurrection ] We shall roll up the heaven, like rolling of the scrolls [meant] for writings...(104) But if they turn away, say[ O Muhammad ], ‘I have proclaimed to you all alike, and I do not know whether What you have been promised[ Day of Resurrection ] is far or near.(109)

Quran, Chapter 21

The Day[ Resurrection ] We shall roll up the heaven, like rolling of the scrolls [meant] for writings...(104) But if they turn away, say[ O Muhammad ], ‘I have proclaimed to you all alike, and I do not know whether what you have been promised[ Resurrection ] is far or near.(109)

The prophet knows, because according to Surrah Nisa, verse 150-151, there is no difference between God and His Messenger. In the verse you quoted, God commands the Prophet to 'Say', I do not know.


Here is another proof:

"And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing."

8:17

Notice, even though Muhammad threw, God says, you did not, but God did. Likewise, when it says, Muhammad does not know, but God knows, it does not mean literally Muhammad does not know. But this is the unity of Prophet and God. The Prophets are Manifestations of God.

In the Hadith, Muhammad asks God, and He reveals it.

 

[mojtaba]

Quran, Chapter 21

The Day[ Resurrection ] We shall roll up the heaven, like rolling of the scrolls [meant] for writings...(104) But if they turn away, say[ O Muhammad ], ‘I have proclaimed to you all alike, and I do not know whether what you have been promised[ Resurrection ] is far or near.(109)

This verse proves that Prophet Muhammd did not know the time of the Day of Resurrection. Why do you try to say that he did?!!

The prophet knows, because according to Surrah Nisa, verse 150-151, there is no difference between God and His Messenger. In the verse you quoted, God commands the Prophet to 'Say', I do not know.

Here is another proof:
"And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing."
8:17

1.This verse never says that there is no difference between God and His Messenger. Because, the verse also says, 'And you[ O Muslims ] did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them'.

Does this mean that there is no difference between God and Muslims?!!!

2.You said, "In the verse you quoted, God commands the Prophet to 'Say', I do not know."

You say that Prophet Muhammad was aware of the matter, but Allah orderd him to say to people, ' I do not know '. Do you mean that Allah ordered His Prophet to lie?!!! So sad. Allah says, 'Indeed, Allah does not order immorality. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?'[7:28]

 

[frazelle09]

InvestigateTruth - Your patience is most commendable. It's neat to be able to "reflect" on these atributes once in a while and to see them in action!

i would think that forebearing and loving-kindness would also be applicable.

Wow, keep up the good work and have a great day!

P.S. i also liked the quote:

“Do not hate what you do not know, for the greater part of knowledge consists of what you do not know.”
― Imam Ali

So logical.

 

[mojtaba]

InvestigateTruth - Your patience is most commendable. It's neat to be able to "reflect" on these atributes once in a while and to see them in action!

i would think that forebearing and loving-kindness would also be applicable.

Wow, keep up the good work and have a great day!

P.S. i also liked the quote:

“Do not hate what you do not know, for the greater part of knowledge consists of what you do not know.”
― Imam Ali

So logical.

Salamun Alaykum.

Dear frazelle09, what do you mean?

The OP said that there would be another nation after Islamic nation, but the authentic Hadith of Prophet Muhammad say that Islamic nation is the last one[Prophet Muhammad said," When I went to the Mi’raj [The Night Ascension] ..... Then I met Moses. Moses (pbuh) said to me, "O' Muhammad! Your Nation is the last and final Nation. Source, Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 82, pg. 257].

Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w.a.w.s.) said, 'It has been given to me the complete words.'(اُعْطیتُ جوامع‌ الکَلم‌)( One of Shia sources, Man La Yahzarohol Faqih, V.1, P.201/ One of Sunni sourecs, Sahih Al-Bukhari, V. 4, P. 12 )

When Prophet Muhammad passed away, Imam Ali(a.s.) said, 'O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets).( Nahjul Balaqa, Sermon 234 )

Imam Sajjad, i.e., Imam Ali ibn Al-Husain[ 4th Shia infallible Imam ] said, 'He[ Allah(swt) ] ended through us (Islamic nation), all He created.'( Sahifa As-Sajjadiyyah, 2th verse of the 2th supplication )

And many other authentic Hadiths which say that there would not be any other Prophet or nation after Prophet Muhammad and his nation.

 

[mojtaba]

It is recorded in a Book called Khazinatul-Jawahir that Prophet Muhammad said:

"I asked My Lord that when shall the Resurrection appear. He said: O My Friend, after 1210 years from Your immigration, murder and war will increase in the world and the world will be filled with injustice. In 1220 years after [your imigration], scholars will disappear and people will not gether together [in unity]. In 1230 years after [immigration], there will be a rain and hail from sky, like eggs which kills animals, and destroys crops, and there will be storm which ruins the lands from rain.
In 1250 years after, there will be a rain that kills most of Jinns and men, and Chasity of girls will be vanished.
In 1260 years after, the lack of water in the rivers of Neil, Tigris and Euphrates, will not let people to plant, and [at that time] the Dabbat al-Ardḍ will appear...."


In this Hadith, there are many symbols, and the allusion in the Hadith is Dabbat al-Ardḍ, which is the rise of Mahdi which is Resurrection.

https://issuu.com/payambahai/docs/estedlalye-i-sadr-u-ssodoor
Page 37
(Translation is mine)

I asked a person who has the book 'Khazinatul-Jawahir' to check the book for that hadith which you have brought it from a Baha'i book[
https://issuu.com/payambahai/docs/estedlalye-i-sadr-u-ssodoor, Page 37]. There is not that fake hadith in it!!!

Also, according to grammatical rules the Arabc text of the hadith which is in the page 35 of that Baha'i book has different problems.

Lol! How much easy Baha'is make fake hadiths to prove their fake religion.

 

[interminable]

I ask a person who has the book 'Khazinatul-Jawahir' to check the book for that hadith which you have brought it from a Baha'i book[
https://issuu.com/payambahai/docs/estedlalye-i-sadr-u-ssodoor, Page 37]. There is not that fake hadith in it!!!

Also, according to grammatical rules the Arabc text of the hadith which is in the page 35 of that Baha'i book, has different problems.

Lol! How much easy Baha'is make fake hadiths to prove their fake religion.

No surprise!
This is natural for every sectarians to invoke some fake traditions to back up their arguments

 

[frazelle09]

Thank you InvestigateTruth. That was beautiful.

Have a super evening!

 

[mojtaba]

Thank you InvestigateTruth. That was beautiful.
Have a super evening!

Dear frazelle09, could you say me that exactely what was beautiful?!

 

[frazelle09]

Dearest mojtaba. i really stand in awe at the knowledge of InvestigateTruth. Such cogent, rational, complete, radiant and indisputable arguments.

A dear Bahá'í friend and i study the glorious Koran every Sunday afternoon as the Blessed Beauty has instructed us to do. We marvel at its completeness and during each meeting become more and more enamored of the One Who revealed its most wonderous and breathtaking Verses. Who, upon reading but one of them, could not help but recognize the Source from which They were revealed?

i have the bounty of teaching a course on revealed religions every once in a while and never tire of explaining to my Occidental friends the truth of the Revelation of Muhammad - upon Him rest the grace of the All-Merciful. Furthermore, we are able to go into detail about how His Teachings and life breathed a new life into the the world and raised up a civilization the likes the world had never seen and whose power and influence was responsible for the Renaissance in Europe and was taken even to the shores of Latin America and other far-reaching parts of the globe.

Peace be upon you and your family.

 

[mojtaba]

Dearest mojtaba. i really stand in awe at the knowledge of InvestigateTruth. Such cogent, rational, complete, radiant and indisputable arguments.

A dear Bahá'í friend and i study the glorious Koran every Sunday afternoon as the Blessed Beauty has instructed us to do. We marvel at its completeness and during each meeting become more and more enamored of the One Who revealed its most wonderous and breathtaking Verses. Who, upon reading but one of them, could not help but recognize the Source from which They were revealed?

i have the bounty of teaching a course on revealed religions every once in a while and never tire of explaining to my Occidental friends the truth of the Revelation of Muhammad - upon Him rest the grace of the All-Merciful. Furthermore, we are able to go into detail about how His Teachings and life breathed a new life into the the world and raised up a civilization the likes the world had never seen and whose power and influence was responsible for the Renaissance in Europe and was taken even to the shores of Latin America and other far-reaching parts of the globe.

Peace be upon you and your family.

Peace be on you and your family too.

Do you mean his fake hadith which Baha'is have made and claimed that it is in one of the Shia authentic books, while it isn't?(See post #27)

Are such these fake things knowledge, reason, and beauty?!!!

Or you mean this saying of your mahdi, i.e., Bab?

Abdul Baha said,

'The utterance of the [book] of Bayān [ book of Bab ] in the day of the appearance of Hadhrat A`lā [meaning the Bab] was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it.'
(See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb, vol. 2, p. 266 )

Or this saying of Baha'ullah, your Prophet?

'You, oh friends of God[ meaning Baha'is ], be clouds of grace for those who believe in God and his signs[ e.g., Baha'ullah ], and be certain torment for those who do not believe in God and are polytheists[ in Baha'i faith, polytheist are those who are faithless in Baha'ism].'
(See, Baha'ullah, Majmu-e-Alvah-e-Mobarakeh, p. 216.)

 

[InvestigateTruth]

They say: "When will this promise (come to pass) if ye are telling the truth?"
Say: “There has been appointed for you a Day, which you can neither delay nor advance by a single moment.”
Quran 34:29-30


As you see, the Quran clearly says, you had just a Day. And a Day according to Quran is 1000 years.

My witness is other verses and Hadithes

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I asked a person who has the book 'Khazinatul-Jawahir' to check the book for that hadith which you have brought it from a Baha'i book[
https://issuu.com/payambahai/docs/estedlalye-i-sadr-u-ssodoor, Page 37]. There is not that fake hadith in it!!!

Also, according to grammatical rules the Arabc text of the hadith which is in the page 35 of that Baha'i book has different problems.

Lol! How much easy Baha'is make fake hadiths to prove their fake religion.

Show me a link to that Book, and I will show where it is. Deal?

 

[interminable]

They say: "When will this promise (come to pass) if ye are telling the truth?"
Say: “There has been appointed for you a Day, which you can neither delay nor advance by a single moment.”
Quran 34:29-30


As you see, the Quran clearly says, you had just a Day. And a Day according to Quran is 1000 years.

My witness is other verses and Hadithes

How strange!!

When god says I created the heavens and the earth in 6 days is it supposed to be interpreted as 6000 years

 

[InvestigateTruth]

How strange!!

When god says I created the heavens and the earth in 6 days is it supposed to be interpreted as 6000 years

Hello, you are correct.

Please see here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/solving-the-puzzle-jerusalem-under-feet-of-genetiles.190407/



http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/comparing-biblical-religious-prophecies-with-history.190330/


I proved it. If you read it, we can discuss farther.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

This verse proves that Prophet Muhammd did not know the time of the Day of Resurrection. Why do you try to say that he did?!!



1.This verse never says that there is no difference between God and His Messenger. Because, the verse also says, 'And you[ O Muslims ] did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them'.

Does this mean that there is no difference between God and Muslims?!!!

2.You said, "In the verse you quoted, God commands the Prophet to 'Say', I do not know."

You say that Prophet Muhammad was aware of the matter, but Allah orderd him to say to people, ' I do not know '. Do you mean that Allah ordered His Prophet to lie?!!! So sad. Allah says, 'Indeed, Allah does not order immorality. Do you say about Allah that which you do not know?'[7:28]

Good questions Mujtaba,

Knowledge is a Light from God. So, in this sense me, you and even the Prophet has no knowledge of Himself, because, that Light of Knowledge is not from us, but from God. So, no lieing. I already quoted the other verse that, even Muhammad threw, God said it was God who did. We cannot say God lied. But this only means, that, all things are from God, and it was though His will, that Muhammad threw. So, no lieing. This is just the way God Veiled the time of coming of Qaim, or Resurrection.

Now, let me give a logical reason too.
It is obvious that, Prophet and Imams are the most trust worthy. There is no logical reason God witholds this knowledge from them.

Now here are some more proof about knowledge of Imams and Prophet:


Selected from Imam Ali Sermon of Gulf:

But rejoice now for the cause of all creation reverts unto Me on the morrow. Let not this claim appear extravagant inasmuch as We have been vouchsafed the knowledge of all fates and of all tribulations. and the knowledge of interpretation and of the Revelation and the decisive Discourse (Faslu'l-Khitab) and knowledge of all future calamities and catastrophes.

There is nothing whose knowledge escapes Us. This is truth and I shall see this One [pointing to Husayn, Peace be upon Him] when His Light shall flow forth of His eyes and I shall be present with Him a lengthy time that shall witness earthquakes and eclipses. They that are believers will revolt in His company from every corner. I swear by God! If I wished I would tell you of their names every one of them and their descent from both parents, until the Day of whose time is promised


. I know of the wonders of God's Work what no one knows but God and I know what has been and what will be and what has been in the First Sprinkling with those who preceded the First Adam. All was disclosed (kushifa) for Me[8] and I knew and all was taught Me and I have learnt.
So hearken and do not raise a clamour. Were it not for My fear that you might say "'Ali has become possessed or apostatised from His Faith" I shall disclose unto you what and whereat they are and what you shall encounter on the day of Resurrection. All that knowledge was entrusted unto Me and thus I knew and the knowledge of all this was hidden from all the Prophets except the Lord of this Dispensation (Shari'ah)[9] of yours (Peace be upon Him and His Family). He taught Me His knowledge and I taught Him My knowledge.


I know all that is above the supreme Paradise and that which is below the seventh Ocean, that which is in the highest heavens and that which is between them and that which is below them




Selected from Imam Ali’s Sermon of Light:


O Salmán! Allahazwj, exalted be He, said: "He causes the Spirit to descend upon His Servant He nominates." This Spirit then descends unto the one entrusted with the Command and the Decree. I (Aliasws ) give life to the dead. I know what is in the heavens and what is on the earth. I am, in truth, the Perspicious Book. I give life unto the dead and I have all the knowledge
that is in the heavens and on the earth. I am the Perspicious Book.
I also bring the Trembling and would cause the ‘final quake’. I am the ‘Protected Tablet’ (Lowhay Mahfooz) and all the knowledge it has originates from me.


My witness for the sayings of Ali is Quran:


http://lib.eshia.ir/search/"من_عنده_علم_الکتاب"?

See here also:

groupKey=eyJpdiI6IldRNzh4QXlrVGVHaTlxN0p2Tk9BMmc9PSIsInZhbHVlIjoiSWNQUzRXeW93eDdcLytJSVVvMkpJQXZGaWZTeWJoM2lua0RmcGxEM2NyeXBURDhZSWN5ajVlRW9Vd2VVbWxRMUFHQTJFSGgydFpFWkpkeXFOcE53aFlBPT0iLCJtYWMiOiI2Yzg2ZmUzZjkyMjVjZWFmYWY1OWMwMjk4MjBjM2Y4MmYyNWQ2MmQ4YjhlNDk0MWUxYWU1ZjQxMzZmMjE4MDk3In0=
http://lib.eshia.ir/27311/15/566/"الا_في_کتاب_مبين"

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Peace be on you and your family too.

Do you mean his fake hadith which Baha'is have made and claimed that it is in one of the Shia authentic books, while it isn't?(See post #27)

Are such these fake things knowledge, reason, and beauty?!!!

Or you mean this saying of your mahdi, i.e., Bab?

Abdul Baha said,

'The utterance of the [book] of Bayān [ book of Bab ] in the day of the appearance of Hadhrat A`lā [meaning the Bab] was to behead, burn the books, destroy the monuments, and massacre [everyone] but those who believed [in the Bāb’s religion] and verified it.'
(See, `Abdu’l-Bahā, Makātīb, vol. 2, p. 266 )

Or this saying of Baha'ullah, your Prophet?

'You, oh friends of God[ meaning Baha'is ], be clouds of grace for those who believe in God and his signs[ e.g., Baha'ullah ], and be certain torment for those who do not believe in God and are polytheists[ in Baha'i faith, polytheist are those who are faithless in Baha'ism].'
(See, Baha'ullah, Majmu-e-Alvah-e-Mobarakeh, p. 216.)

Firstly God ordains whatever He wills. So, harsh Laws, does not mean they are not from God.

The Babi Faith religious Laws were revealed for a short period, until Bahaullah's revelation, which was only 9 years. Bahai faith has a different set of Laws.
The Muslims expected a blood thisty Qaim who cuts everyones head, don't you?

'Certain torment' in a sense that, help the cause of God to progress, not in a violent way, such as beating or killing:

"So fierce is this fire of self burning within them,
that at every moment they seem to be afflicted with fresh torments. The more they are told that this wondrous Cause of God, this Revelation from the Most High, hath been made manifest to all
mankind, and is waxing greater and stronger every day, the fiercer groweth the blaze of the fire in their hearts. "

- Bahaullah, Book of Iqan

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Salamun Alaykum.

Dear frazelle09, what do you mean?

The OP said that there would be another nation after Islamic nation, but the authentic Hadith of Prophet Muhammad say that Islamic nation is the last one[Prophet Muhammad said," When I went to the Mi’raj [The Night Ascension] ..... Then I met Moses. Moses (pbuh) said to me, "O' Muhammad! Your Nation is the last and final Nation. Source, Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 82, pg. 257].

Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w.a.w.s.) said, 'It has been given to me the complete words.'(اُعْطیتُ جوامع‌ الکَلم‌)( One of Shia sources, Man La Yahzarohol Faqih, V.1, P.201/ One of Sunni sourecs, Sahih Al-Bukhari, V. 4, P. 12 )

When Prophet Muhammad passed away, Imam Ali(a.s.) said, 'O Messenger of Allah! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets).( Nahjul Balaqa, Sermon 234 )

Imam Sajjad, i.e., Imam Ali ibn Al-Husain[ 4th Shia infallible Imam ] said, 'He[ Allah(swt) ] ended through us (Islamic nation), all He created.'( Sahifa As-Sajjadiyyah, 2th verse of the 2th supplication )

And many other authentic Hadiths which say that there would not be any other Prophet or nation after Prophet Muhammad and his nation.

The divine revelation is always closed by coming of a Messenger. Fro example when Moses came, He revealed religious Laws ordained until coming of Jesus, who had a New revelation. Even, between Moses and Jesus there were many Prophets (Nabi), they did not have any New Religious Laws. They only promoted Religion of Moses.

In Islam, the Revelation ended with Muhammad and was closed until coming of the Qaim. The Qaim according to Hadithes is an Imam and a Messenger with a New Book and Sharia. As you know, being an Imam does not mean not a Messenger. For example, Muhammad and Abraham were Imams and also Messenger, as you surely know.

 

[jeager106]

Muhammad forged the military instrument of the Arab conquests that began within two years of his death by bringing into being a completely new kind of army not seen before in Arabia. He introduced no fewer than eight major military reforms that transformed the armies and conduct of war in Arabia.

Religion of peace?
http://www.historynet.com/muhammad-the-warrior-prophet.htm