shia

[Popeyesays]

Translation or interpretation, the key phrase in the Shahada apart from the two phrases (in the Sunni Shahada) 'Allah is the only god' and 'Mohammad is His messenger' is, 'I bear witness'. The Muslim or Muslim-to-be makes the claim to have witnessed the truth of the other two phrases. In reality Muslims are not witness to any objective facts about Allah and his messenger but are only expressing their own belief or faith that Allah is the only god and Mohammad is His messenger. Such being the reality, is the word ‘witness’ in translation (or interpretation) an incorrect translation (or interpretation)? If the translation is correct, haven’t Muslims (unknowingly, of course) been bearing false witness all the while?

One "bears" witness to what one knows.

Knowledge of spiritual things is different from seeing what happened before one's eyes. Is itnot?

Regards,
Scott

 

[K.Venugopal]

One "bears" witness to what one knows.

One either knows or does not know. When one is not sure, when one supposes, then belief and faith come in. Subsequently on the strength of faith one converts one's uncertainty into certainty. But this certainty is a subjective certainty. In witnessing one cannot be subjective. One has to be objective. The word 'witness' is used over 200 times in the Quran. Nowhere is the witness permitted the luxury of being subjective. Allah says He is the best witness to the fact that Mohammad is His messenger. Allah knows. He does not, surely, bear witness on faith. Moreover, the Shariat insists on 4 witnesses in rape cases - all having witnessed the actual penetration. If the 4th witness only made an obvious guess, what with all the ‘togetherness’ he witnessed, without actually seeing the penetration, he is no witness and thus, the quorum of witness not achieved, the rapist goes scot-free. Everywhere else in Islamic theology, it appears, witness is required to give an objective testimony. Why the exception in the Shahada?

 

[AbuQuteiba]

One either knows or does not know. When one is not sure, when one supposes, then belief and faith come in. Subsequently on the strength of faith one converts one's uncertainty into certainty. But this certainty is a subjective certainty. In witnessing one cannot be subjective. One has to be objective. The word 'witness' is used over 200 times in the Quran. Nowhere is the witness permitted the luxury of being subjective. Allah says He is the best witness to the fact that Mohammad is His messenger. Allah knows. He does not, surely, bear witness on faith. Moreover, the Shariat insists on 4 witnesses in rape cases - all having witnessed the actual penetration. If the 4th witness only made an obvious guess, what with all the ‘togetherness’ he witnessed, without actually seeing the penetration, he is no witness and thus, the quorum of witness not achieved, the rapist goes scot-free. Everywhere else in Islamic theology, it appears, witness is required to give an objective testimony. Why the exception in the Shahada?

Nice try. This isn't the place.

 

[yirme]

brother are you a scholar ? borther the reason why they(shia) scholars are known as kaafir is because many of thier major beliefs contradict the teaches of the prophet

i do not claim to be a scholar, their teachings differ from the teachings of the prophets according to sunni scholars, from a sunni perspective. the shia scholars can say the same thing about the sunni scholars. i am not saying either side is right. but when viewed from a biased position, things become unclear.

peace

 

[zamilabbas]

they are partly muslim a they have many differeces from a pure muslim and a shia

 

[Tanuki]

The raafidha (shee'a), are upon so many bida' mukkafirah, it's not even funny. Some of them are:
-they believe the Qur'aan is not yet complete
-they believe the sahaaba are kuffaar, or fussaaq (transgressors) depending on the sect.
-they believe that the mothers of the believers, like 'Aaisha (radhiyalllaahu 'anhaa) are zaaniyat (fornicators)
-they have their own Hajj (pilgrimage) to Karbalaa'
-they believe that Abu Bakr (radhiyallaahu 'anhu) unjustly took the khilaafa from 'Ali (radhiyalllaahu 'anhu).

I know this thread was a couple of years ago, but a number of things said are completely wrong. The Shia (and I speak as a former Shia Muslim) do not believe the Qur'an is incomplete and do not have their own Hajj! Like all Muslims the Shia believe in performing Hajj to Mecca; Karbala was the scene of a horrendous turning point in Islam and as such many Shia make pilgrimage to it, but in no way does it replace Hajj.

Also, Muhammad (SAW) in a number of hadith alluded that Ali (AS) was his successor. He in fact also named the 12 Imams starting with Ali (AS), so yes, they do believe Abu Bakr unjustly took the khalifate, but with good reason.

 

[Shia Islam]

How funny is it for the followers of Yazid and the Umayad tyranny to even talk about what Islam is...

We don't seek approval from anybody who don't believe in the the in Ali (A.S), Fatimah (A.S) and the 11 imams descending from them...

By Allah blessing and by these imams intercessions , we survived 14 centuries of brutal dynasties claiming to follow Islam...and now that the truth stared to prevail the way will be easier insha'allah...

Shia'sm is the paradise that most humans have lost...
I just can't describe how proud i am to be a follower of Ali (A.S.) and the other 13 infallible...

and I am completely happy to face my lord after death as a follower of these great humans who are the beloved of Allah.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Ali (A.S), Fatimah (A.S) and the 11 imams descending from them...

Ali (A.S.) and the other 13 infallible...

Someone is missing here..

 

[Tanuki]

Quote:
Ali (A.S), Fatimah (A.S) and the 11 imams descending from them...
Quote:
Ali (A.S.) and the other 13 infallible...
Someone is missing here..

Muhammad (SAW) is also one of the 14 infallibles and was missing from the first quote, and so it looked as though both quotes were perhaps at odds and those speaking couldn't make up their mind.

 

[Shia Islam]

11 Imams + 1 Prophet (SAW) +Imam Ali (A.S.)+ lady Fatima (A.S) = 14 Infallibles.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

...and now that the truth stared to prevail the way will be easier insha'allah...

Could you elaborate on this? Also, what are your views on Shia Ismaili Muslims?

 

[Shia Islam]

Could you elaborate on this? Also, what are your views on Shia Ismaili Muslims?

During the era of the brutal so called the Islamic Caliphate, one is really risking his/her life by following Shia Islam. That's why Shia used to hide their beliefs…

Nowadays, in many countries Shia can express their views…and this will certainly lead to both the Sunni and Shia views be available for comparison and people will see the difference…

Also, We shia believe in the return of Both our Imam Mahdi and also Jesus …
That will bring the real change..

When it comes to the Shia Ismaili Muslims…

Historically, the seventh Shia Imam was poisoned by the Abbasid Calif..
And was killed while in custody by the Caliph..

During that era Shia used to hide their beliefs, and find it hard contact their imams..

That has played a role in that some Shia did not follow the seventh imam and followed his Uncle (Ismail) instead…

Many Twelver Shia used to be of the Ismaili Shia…
Ismaili Shia are part of the Shia Family…

They are privileged by following six of the twelve Shia Imams…

Unless someone has found evidence that he should follow the remaining six, and decided to ignore that evidence, then no blame is on him..

 

[ruhnafsoul]

what do you think shia are? muslims or non muslims

I guess that its not appropriate for us to judge or questions about other people's faith in Islam.. i.e whether a muslim or non-muslim..

Islam is a religion from ALLAH for every human kind.. there shouldn't be any claimed groups for Islam.. no sunni no shia no others..

There are only muslims, mukmin and muhsinin in Islam.. from every humankind.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

If a sect is clearly contradicting the very basics of Islam , then yes there should become groups.

If you're good at arabic, keep this rule in mind:

كلمة التوحيد قبل توحيد الكلمة

which means: the word of monotheism before the unity of ranks ( I tried to beautify it as it is in arabic, but I failed)

 

[Shia Islam]

If a sect is clearly contradicting the very basics of Islam , then yes there should become groups.

If you're good at arabic, keep this rule in mind:

كلمة التوحيد قبل توحيد الكلمة

which means: the word of monotheism before the unity of ranks ( I tried to beautify it as it is in arabic, but I failed)

Yes. That is true.

 

[.lava]

I guess that its not appropriate for us to judge or questions about other people's faith in Islam.. i.e whether a muslim or non-muslim..

Islam is a religion from ALLAH for every human kind.. there shouldn't be any claimed groups for Islam.. no sunni no shia no others..

There are only muslims, mukmin and muhsinin in Islam.. from every humankind.

i agree. or you can ask them if they are Muslims or not, why ask others?

.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Someone may think hes a good muslim, while hes contradicting the most basic princples in Islam , such as monotheism.

In that case, asking if you're a muslim or not wont lead to anything of benefit , will it?

 

[Shia Islam]

Someone may think hes a good muslim, while hes contradicting the most basic princples in Islam , such as monotheism.

In that case, asking if you're a muslim or not wont lead to anything of benefit , will it?

As you pointed out many times, according to your Wahabism you believe that Shia are not Muslims, and not monotheistic.

As followers of Ahlulbayt A.S we have refuted your claims...
and showed that you don't understand what monotheism is, otherwise you will not claim that Allah has a body and can bee seen by eyes.

The debate between Ahlul-Bayt and the Nasibis is more than 1400 years back. Everything has been said.

You decided to be with Yazeed and we decided to be with Husain A.S.
It's of no use to claim that Husain A.S. and Yazeed loves one another...

So after 1400 years of debate, there is no use of repeating...
you can refer to our books in replying to Wahabis allegations...

The majority of Members in this Forum are not Muslims...
and wasting time in Shia-Sunni debate won't add any value...
You have your Imams and We Shia have our imams...

So stop calling us non-Muslims...
We know how to reply...
Many Islamic groups were born and died within those 1400 years...
Shia Islam will never die...
So don't think that We are naive people, We are followers of Ali...and who is not a follower of Ali peace be upon him will never know what monotheism is.

 

[.lava]

So stop calling us non-Muslims...

i would suggest the same. only God knows who's good or better. we are playing with fire when we judge people about their faiths

.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

Who talked about you shia muslim?? Did I ever ever mention any pecific sect in my posts?

I talked about those who think they are muslims while they are not, if you're not one of those then why the anger and temper??

And yes, Im not here to lead a sunni-shia debate, so relax and stop thinking that you're the center of the world please.

Best regards.