Shocking claim to Macro-evolution!

[exchemist]

He has already published several books!

What I find "mystical" about his claim is that......the science community seems to be very, very silent about this!

Like I've given above, he also wrote an open letter to his colleagues, basically challenging them to refute him!

Of course the science community is silent about his views on this. They are not science: no reproducible observations of nature, no testable theory or hypothesis.

So there is nothing for the science community to respond to here. Nothing at all.

 

[tosca1]

OK let's take this slowly. I said the theory of evolution does not depend on any chemistry.

You replied suggesting that life had to start somehow. Which is obviously true, but so what?

All the theory of evolution requires is replication of inherited traits. It does not matter whether this is done by earth biochemistry or by some exotic and unknown chemistry on Jupiter's moon Titan, involving methane as a solvent and long chains of, ooh, I don't know, silicon atoms, say.

Any biochemical system that reproduces by passing on characteristics from one generation to the next can evolve by natural selection.

Unless you're a scientist along the calibre of James Tour (and that your expertise is what you're talking about)......you don't have any voice of authority at all to give any lectures about the theory of evolution or the origin of life. This is one topic where-in personal opinion definitely doesn't count at all!

Your personal opinion is irrelevant! I don't care about personal opinion!
Deal with the issue!

If you want to refute James Tour's claim - find a scientist (or science source) that directly refutes his claim!

He wrote an open letter to his colleagues - there's gotta be someone, somewhere who had the balls to refute his claims!

Google for it! Chop-chop. Get going.
I couldn't find one - maybe I'm looking at the wrong places. Let's find "Waldo!"



It's the same in every forums. Will you evolutionists please........stop posturing! Lol!

 

[tosca1]

Of course the science community is silent about his views on this. They are not science: no reproducible observations of nature, no testable theory or hypothesis.

So there is nothing for the science community to respond to here. Nothing at all.

What were his questions to his colleagues? Did you even read?

 

[sayak83]

You should read the first two or three posts I gave above.

I have read. Not watched the videos (slow internet). There is nothing there than personal inability to understand how evolution actually works.

If I do not understand how calculus works, that does make calculus false, does it?

You are free to ask any one question regarding evolution that you find personally difficult to believe in. I will explain that question as far as I am capable. One specific question only. Let's see if I can clarify it for you.

 

[tosca1]

Point is they asked him to read something, and that offended him.


Then reading ought to be very easy for him. How does he not know, and how could he not know that Evolution does not require abiogenesis. Its independent. People have always seen the similarities and the continuum of species but they didn't have an explanation for how changes might occur until Darwin discovered the Galapogos birds. Then he explained the mechanism of survival, and people began to realize he was right. After than much more evidence for evolution (not abiogenesis) appeared as more and more living species were catalogued as well as extinct ones. Lately DNA evidence is also compelling and tells the story of a family of animals that includes humans. It nevertheless is unrelated to abiogenesis. For all we know the first cells came from somewhere, and evolution doesn't say where. How does the Chemist not know? He does not know, because when he makes inquiries and is asked to read something he gets insulted. That is not a reasonable response to being given reading material, not when he is supposedly making an inquiry. I have explained the topic in a single paragraph. His ignorance is inexcusable and darkens his reputation. He has shat upon Science.

Read my post #102.

 

[exchemist]

Unless you're a scientist along the calibre of James Tour (and that your expertise is what you're talking about)......you don't have any voice of authority at all to give any lectures about the theory of evolution or the origin of life. This is one topic where-in personal opinion definitely doesn't count at all!

Your personal opinion is irrelevant! I don't care about personal opinion! Deal with the issue!

If you want to refute James Tour's claim - find a scientist (or science source) that directly refutes his claim!
He wrote an open letter to his colleagues - there's gotta be someone, somewhere who had the balls to refute his claims!

Will you evolutionists stop posturing! Lol!

I'd be more impressed if you would address the points I make, rather than trying to rubbish my authority to make them.

However, if you want to talk about authority, it doesn't matter a damn how good a chemist this guy may be. He is not an authority on either evolution or abiogenesis. He has done zero research in either field, in his entire career. So he's basically just offering a non-specialist opinion - with no science to back it up.

As for "refuting" Tour's claim, what is it? Does he actually make a refutable claim? Can you summarise what it is? If you can, I will try to comment on it.

 

[sayak83]

Unless you're a scientist along the calibre of James Tour (and that your expertise is what you're talking about)......you don't have any voice of authority at all to give any lectures about the theory of evolution or the origin of life. This is one topic where-in personal opinion definitely doesn't count at all!

Your personal opinion is irrelevant! I don't care about personal opinion!
Deal with the issue!

If you want to refute James Tour's claim - find a scientist (or science source) that directly refutes his claim!

He wrote an open letter to his colleagues - there's gotta be someone, somewhere who had the balls to refute his claims!

Google for it! Chop-chop. Get going.
I couldn't find one - maybe I'm looking at the wrong places. Let's find "Waldo!"



It's the same in every forums. Will you evolutionists please........stop posturing! Lol!

I have the expertise. I am a scientist in the field of thermodynamics and chemical reactions. I have a PhD and two post-docs. While I primarily work in organic biosynthesis and combustion, my training is sufficient for me to explain the fundamentals of evolutionary biology.

And I am a Hindu monist.

 

[exchemist]

Unless you're a scientist along the calibre of James Tour (and that your expertise is what you're talking about)......you don't have any voice of authority at all to give any lectures about the theory of evolution or the origin of life. This is one topic where-in personal opinion definitely doesn't count at all!

Your personal opinion is irrelevant! I don't care about personal opinion!
Deal with the issue!

If you want to refute James Tour's claim - find a scientist (or science source) that directly refutes his claim!

He wrote an open letter to his colleagues - there's gotta be someone, somewhere who had the balls to refute his claims!

Google for it! Chop-chop. Get going.
I couldn't find one - maybe I'm looking at the wrong places. Let's find "Waldo!"



It's the same in every forums. Will you evolutionists please........stop posturing! Lol!

By the way, why not use a bigger variety of colours and font sizes? I'm sure that would add persuasiveness and stature to your arguments.

 

[ChristineM]

He has already published several books!

What I find "mystical" about his claim is that......the science community seems to be very, very silent about this!

Like I've given above, he also wrote an open letter to his colleagues, basically challenging them to refute him!

Ok perhaps i should have been more specific, how about "another book" rather than "a book"?

Silent? about evolution? Evolution is beyond doubt. But of course science is silent about irrelevant bullpoop. If Tour thinks it worthy of study then he should produce a scientific paper (not a letter) and offer it for peer review. As yet i see no attempt to engage science in his claim.

If his (future) paper is worthy of science then it will be reviewed, tested and checked. If not then it will be rejected and he can modify his hypothesis and try again. That is how science works.

 

[tosca1]

Ignorance vs science. I vote with science.

There's only one glaring unmistakeable ignorance that shines forth from your post.

Folks, careful with your knee-jerk reactions.

I know James Tour's claim must be like a bombshell that just exploded - hence I call it "shocking."

I understand it'll be shocking to a lot of evolutionists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You should read the first two or three posts I gave above.

There was nothing of note there.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's only one source of glaring unmistakeable ignorance that shines forth from your post.

You posted a video by someone who you accepted as an authority since he agreed with your superstitious beliefs. He is not an authority in the subject that he was discussing. Not only that the video that I linked showed how he was either lying or an idiot. Meanwhile you cannot even address specific claims by Tour that supports his belief. Perhaps you know from experience that if you make specific claims that they will be refuted.

 

[tosca1]

God created man through evolution. There's a reason why goldfish have a spine, two eyes, two nostrils, a mouth, and a poop hole. And so do we!!! There's a reason why some ear lobes are attached and some are not.

Any theist who cares one iota about evolution is expressing a lack of faith in their own God. An omnipotent God can create the Universe in any amount of time including all the fake carbon dating and fossil evidence. If the idea of evolution somehow disturbs or shakes your faith in your own religion then become an atheist and keep your mouth closed.

My grandmother used to say in an Edith Bunker like piercing voice, "If you don't have anything nice to say shut your God damn mouth!"

I understand where you're coming from.....but, all that is irrelevant in this issue.

 

[tosca1]

Just last week a saw a video refuting his claims about Jack Szostak. Tour made mistakes in his video that an undergrad chemistry major would not make. They are well explained in the following video. Reportedly he apologized to Szostak for lying about him in his video:

Okay....can you please post that so-called refutation to his claim?


What did he apologise for EXACTLY? His scientific claim?


Here is what I found about it:

May 11, 2019

Dear John,Thank you for reaching out to me for clarity regarding my talk in Dallas on January 19, 2019,entitled “The Mystery of the Origin of Life,”and posted March 18, 2019 on YouTube by the Discovery Institute.

still have not read what anyone has said about the talk in Dallas.
I do not read blogs, nor do I write for them. But you tell me that it has caused quite a stir, especially regarding my comments about Professor Szostak’s Naturearticle.
Let me clean up one issue with an apology since my word “lying” was inappropriate

and I should not have used that term. For that, I am not making an excuse. I am without excuse.

more.....

http://www.jmtour.com/wp-content/uploads/John-West-on-Szostak-Article.pdf

Using the the term, "liar." That's what he was apologising for.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Okay....can you please post that refutation to his claim?


What did he apologise for EXACTLY? His scientific claim?

He lied several times about the work of Szostak.


Watch the video and we can discus it.

 

[tosca1]

Just last week a saw a video refuting his claims about Jack Szostak. Tour made mistakes in his video that an undergrad chemistry major would not make. They are well explained in the following video. Reportedly he apologized to Szostak for lying about him in his video:

Well, ladida!

Szostack RETRACTED! I don't know if this was exactly what James Tour called him out for, but here it is.....

Nobel Laureate Retracts Own Paper in 'Definitely Embarrassing' Science Fail

In 2009, Harvard University physiologist Jack Szostak, Ph.D., won the Nobel Prize for his groundbreaking work studying the telomeres on our DNA. The prolific researcher continued his work on the human genetic code, publishing a groundbreaking Nature Chemistry paper in 2016 elucidating how life first began on Earth. However, as recent events reveal, even Nobel laureates make humiliating mistakes.

On November 23, Szostak and the co-authors of the Nature Chemistry paper requested that it be retracted after discovering that attempts to replicate the study failed.

Nobel Winner Retracts Own Paper in 'Definitely Embarrassing' Fail | Inverse

 

[tosca1]

He lied several times about the work of Szostak.


Watch the video and we can discus it.

I'm running behind - answering what were posted yesterday - so many responses.

Read what I just posted. Szostack retracted!

#116.

Some people are now trying to smear James Tour. here are allegations of his so-called lying - which are debunked.


https://evolutionnews.org/2019/05/professor-james-tour-a-liar-for-jesus/

 

[tosca1]

But the argument that the theory of evolution is invalid, because the origin of life is unknown, is not a rational argument.

Who sez that? Who made that claim?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, ladida!

Szostack RETRACTED! I don't know if this was exactly what James Tour called him out for, but here it is.....



Nobel Winner Retracts Own Paper in 'Definitely Embarrassing' Fail | Inverse

That does not help you. Unlike creationists Szostak was honest when he made a mistake. Please note that he publishes several papers a year on this topic. He made a mistake in one of them and acknowledged it. The problem is that the fools that you rely on never own up to their mistakes.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm running behind - answering what were posted yesterday - so many responses.

Read what I just posted. Szostack retracted!

#116.

Some people are now trying to smear James Tour. here are allegations of his so-called lying - which are debunked.


https://evolutionnews.org/2019/05/professor-james-tour-a-liar-for-jesus/

Yes, that was merely you grasping at straws and demonstrating an ignorance of science.

You relied on a lying source. At least Szostak made an honest mistake and owned up to it. That was a good thing. When you post Tour's retraction then you might be able to claim some legitimacy of what is left of his video. Until he does that the whole thing is garbage.