Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

[cottage]

Cannot be falsified certainly, nor proven.

And I would argue about the "world of the experienced" as well. Is quantum physics, for example "experienced"?

Falsification as in 'cannot be falsified', refers to propositions that imply no contradiction, which means neither proved nor disproved. The Loch Ness Monster swims at thirty feet below the surface, is a good example.

Quantum theory relates to the physical world, since it is concerned with matter and energy. So yes, that would be the world of experience.

 

[AxisMundi]

Falsification as in 'cannot be falsified', refers to propositions that imply no contradiction, which means neither proved nor disproved. The Loch Ness Monster swims at thirty feet below the surface, is a good example.

Quantum theory relates to the physical world, since it is concerned with matter and energy. So yes, that would be the world of experience.

When is the last time you directly expeeinced quantum phsyics?

Another example, when is the last time you saw gravity, and not just the effects of but gravity itself?

 

[godnotgod]

I'm not God.

Therefore not God exists.

"Think neither God, nor not-God"
Buddha

 

[AK4]

Just a quick interjection....


Is it too far-fetched to say atheism is based on the concept and doctrine of freewill?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Just a quick interjection....


Is it too far-fetched to say atheism is based on the concept and doctrine of freewill?

:yes:

 

[AK4]

:yes:

How so?

 

[godnotgod]

Just a quick interjection....


Is it too far-fetched to say atheism is based on the concept and doctrine of freewill?

Oooooweeee! Now that is one Tricky Dick question! AK4, that is one diabolical mind you got there! (Notice, folks, he says it is but a "quick interjection".) Oh, yeah! So quick, you almost don't notice the slick, smooth sleight of hand at work here.

Silken, AK4...absolutely silken.. :clap

 

[cottage]

When is the last time you directly expeeinced quantum phsyics?

You might just as well say ‘when was the last time you directly experienced evolution?’ Quantum physics is a theory that seeks to explain matter and energy by identifying clues to what are thought to be fundamental to the nature of the universe.

Another example, when is the last time you saw gravity, and not just the effects of but gravity itself?

I’ll return the question to you! When was the last time you saw the cause of a supposed effect? These things are all physical phenomena that occur in the empirical world.

 

[AxisMundi]

You might just as well say ‘when was the last time you directly experienced evolution?’ Quantum physics is a theory that seeks to explain matter and energy by identifying clues to what are thought to be fundamental to the nature of the universe.

I’ll return the question to you! When was the last time you saw the cause of a supposed effect? These things are all physical phenomena that occur in the empirical world.

A scientific theory explains facts and how they interact with one another.

And I've no idea why you're "returning the question", one you haven't answered yet.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Just a quick interjection....


Is it too far-fetched to say atheism is based on the concept and doctrine of freewill?

The only "base' in atheism is a lack of belief in a deity.

 

[cottage]

A scientific theory explains facts and how they interact with one another.

Yes, yes, exactly!
A scientific theory provides a coherent explanation for observations about the natural world.

And I've no idea why you're "returning the question", one you haven't answered yet.

Then you didn’t read what I wrote. I said:
“These things are all physical phenomena that occur in the empirical world.” In other words the things that happen in the world of experience. And btw, the term 'world of experience' isn't limited to individual or subjective experience. Example: Neolithic Man is of the world of experience, while Ark Angel Gabriel is not.

It would save time for us both if you just stated your argument in full, whatever it is, so that I can do it justice.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

How so?

We have a lack of belief. The "concept" of free will is religious based. The concept of free will stems from the idea that a god (specifically the God of the OT/NT/Qur'an) has "given" his/her/its "creation" the "ability or right" to do as one wants (WITH EXCEPTIONS...namely the 600+/or 10 commandments one must to follow). It, by description, is is similar to an oxymoron.

Since we are not bound by the concept of a god or "holy books" or its (man made laws) then we do not adhere to the man made concept of "free will". We are simply....Human.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Falsification as in 'cannot be falsified', refers to propositions that imply no contradiction, which means neither proved nor disproved.

In science, particularly the scientific method, falsifiability does not mean it is false, unproven, or unprovable. Rather, that if it is false, then this can be shown by observation or experiment.

 

[cottage]

In science, particularly the scientific method, falsifiability does not mean it is false, unproven, or unprovable. Rather, that if it is false, then this can be shown by observation or experiment.

Absolutely correct. Only in science can things be falsified. Metaphysical religious beliefs cannot be falsified, since no existential propositions imply a contradiction.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Absolutely correct. Only in science can things be falsified. Metaphysical religious beliefs cannot be falsified, since no existential propositions imply a contradiction.

True, rendering any supernatural claim scientifically void.

 

[AK4]

You have been shown how cause/effect does not apply to both quantum physics and beyond the singularity.
You have just chosen to ignore it at continue with your "eternal universe" argument.

And I have showed you where is it quantum mechanics is not free from cause and effect. Heres another
http://www.wheaton.edu/physics/faculty/wharton/causation_with_qm.pdf
Super Relativity - A Unified Field Theory that Supersedes Quantum Mechanics and String Theory

You posit nothing is eternal, while presenting your God as eternal. This is not redirection, just pointing to the flaw in your argument.

No its just that you assume that I believe in the same God as what the world teaches. Like I said before, that word eternal is not scriptural and by strict definition shouldn’t be applied to God. Nowhere in the scriptures does it say God has always been what He is.
Besides your statement above is incorrect about what ive been saying. Ive been saying nothing IN CREATION is eternal. God is not created, the universe is. God doesn’t have a beginning, the universe does.

Please present any post I have made at any time referring to the existence of an "eternal" universe.

Okay here is your smoke and mirror thing again, you present your claim as the there was nothing before the BB which right here you are saying that the universe isn’t eternal. Then you argue for quantum mechanics saying NOTHING brought or caused this law or other laws into effect. Hence through your smoke and mirrors you are saying that the universe somehow always existed because the things that happen on the subatomic level in quantum mechanics either
A) Pop into existence out of nothing [wow another Christian doctrine infiltrates science… creation ex nihilo] or
B) They always existed in some state and somehow then according to your interpretation of quantum mechanics brought about/caused the BB.
Regardless you are contradicting yourself in your own argument.

 

[AK4]

Here's the difference: in either case, it would be perfectly reasonable to refuse to accept claims until they've been demonstrated to be likely correct. In the case of the Christian who refuses to accept science, fine: if necessary, we can explain and demonstrate step-by-step why the conclusions of science are valid.

Nobody is asking you to accept what science says just based on the authority of science. By the same token, I'm not going to accept what the Bible says just based on the authority of the Bible.

Only once you demonstrate that the Bible is correct would it be reasonable for you to complain when people don't automatically accept the Bible as true. You haven't done that yet, and neither has anyone else.

The things i have demonstrated from the bible have been correct, you just refuse to believe them because you are biased against it.

 

[AK4]

That is because YOU presented that strawman, not us.

I presented it? What other option is there? Eternal universe or God? If there is more options, please fill free to share.

 

[Jeremiah]

I have a magic nickel and it knows all the secrets of everything. And the nickel, which never lies, told me that there are no such things as gods.

There I have proven it, case closed, the nickel has spoken, there are no gods.

 

[Jeremiah]

I presented it? What other option is there? Eternal universe or God? If there is more options, please fill free to share.

Admitting that we don't know, is the other option.