Should a potential rape wictim be allowed to use deadly force?

[Barcode]

While I agree with your three scenarios it is also important to read the intention of the attacker. For example even if he hasn't physically touched you yet, if he draws a knife lethal action is ok.

Agreed, some people are into vigilante justice it seems.

I agree. All bets are off if he draws a knife.

 

[Karl R]

A) If the individual hasn't physically assaulted you, yet you feel threatened leave

B) If you cannot leave and still feel threatened warn the individual that you'll scream for help or threatened to call police via cell phone.

C) If in the process you do both and the individual grabs you, do what is necessary to subdue the attacker

You are still wildly overestimating the woman's options.

If a woman waits until I grab her, her weapon has already become my weapon. She would have been better off not carrying one.

A knife-wielding attacker can cover 21' (approx 7m) before a police officer can draw and fire his weapon. (A lot of police get stabbed this way.) If a woman has a weapon (or cell phone) in her purse, it will take even longer to get her weapon out.

Attacks in real life aren't like the movies, where the threatening encounter is drawn out for additional drama and suspense. It's more like a car accident. By the time you realize it's happening, you might have time for one instinctive movement before you get hit.

And like defensive driving, you need to be taking your defensive actions before bad things start happening.

Don't warn him that you'll call 9-1-1. You need to be talking to the 9-1-1 operator before he realizes you're suspicious. Don't try to leave the area first. Get your hand on your gun, then leave the area. If he tries to prevent you, shoot him through the purse.

 

[Barcode]

You are still wildly overestimating the woman's options.

If a woman waits until I grab her, her weapon has already become my weapon. She would have been better off not carrying one.

A knife-wielding attacker can cover 21' (approx 7m) before a police officer can draw and fire his weapon. (A lot of police get stabbed this way.) If a woman has a weapon (or cell phone) in her purse, it will take even longer to get her weapon out.

Attacks in real life aren't like the movies, where the threatening encounter is drawn out for additional drama and suspense. It's more like a car accident. By the time you realize it's happening, you might have time for one instinctive movement before you get hit.

And like defensive driving, you need to be taking your defensive actions before bad things start happening.

Don't warn him that you'll call 9-1-1. You need to be talking to the 9-1-1 operator before he realizes you're suspicious. Don't try to leave the area first. Get your hand on your gun, then leave the area. If he tries to prevent you, shoot him through the purse.

Ok. Whatever you say

 

[Barcode]

You are still wildly overestimating the woman's options.

If a woman waits until I grab her, her weapon has already become my weapon. She would have been better off not carrying one.

A knife-wielding attacker can cover 21' (approx 7m) before a police officer can draw and fire his weapon. (A lot of police get stabbed this way.) If a woman has a weapon (or cell phone) in her purse, it will take even longer to get her weapon out.

Attacks in real life aren't like the movies, where the threatening encounter is drawn out for additional drama and suspense. It's more like a car accident. By the time you realize it's happening, you might have time for one instinctive movement before you get hit.

And like defensive driving, you need to be taking your defensive actions before bad things start happening.

Don't warn him that you'll call 9-1-1. You need to be talking to the 9-1-1 operator before he realizes you're suspicious. Don't try to leave the area first. Get your hand on your gun, then leave the area. If he tries to prevent you, shoot him through the purse.

Ok. Whatever you say

I hope no woman takes your advice. Discharging a weapon especially in public even if he is in the wrong is an offense that will land you in prison. What if you shoot through the purse and the bullet happens to kill a kid, bystander or an elderly lady? Again it is YOU and the Mel Gibson lethal weapon advice is overestimating the issue

 

[Karl R]

Discharging a weapon especially in public even if he is in the wrong is an offense that will land you in prison.

I'm unaware of any location in the U.S. where firing a gun in self-defense is illegal if you're in a public place. What jurisdiction do you believe is an exception to this?

What if you shoot through the purse and the bullet happens to kill a kid, bystander or an elderly lady?

Are you suggesting the attempted rape is occuring in front of kids, bystanders and elderly ladies?

 

[Father Heathen]

Killing someone to prevent a rape still lands you in jail.

No civilized country would prosecute someone for killing someone in self defense.

So again, if I understand you correctly, are you implying doing physical harm prior to sexual assault?

In self defense yes. Killing a would be rapist is preferable to being raped. The security and well being of the victim will always be of a much higher priority than that of the assailant, and no amount of mawkish mewling will ever change that.

 

[Bismillah]

How do you identify a rapist?

 

[Father Heathen]

How do you identify a rapist?

My guess would be someone who forcefully attempts to penetrate you.

 

[linwood]

I operate under the assumption that simple assault is justification for using deadly force.

 

[Bismillah]

My guess would be someone who forcefully attempts to penetrate you.

Brilliant. So I now know I am being assaulted by a rapist, I can use lethal force on him without disregard.

However, you said that a women can and should retaliate before the presumed rapist physically touches her. So how do you identify a rapist before he physically touches you?

 

[Father Heathen]

I find it disgusting that people would have the audacity to insist that others put themselves at unnecessary risk simply for the sake of those trying to do them harm. Makes zero sense and should be dismissed as the drivel it is.

 

[Father Heathen]

Brilliant. So I now know I am being assaulted by a rapist, I can use lethal force on him without disregard.

However, you said that a women can and should retaliate before the presumed rapist physically touches her. So how do you identify a rapist before he physically touches you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defense_(United_States)

 

[Bismillah]

Doesn't help my question

In Runyan, the court stated "When a person, being without fault, is in a place where he has a right to be, is violently assaulted, he may, without retreating, repel by force, and if, in the reasonable exercise of his right of self defense, his assailant is killed, he is justiciable."

Read "violently assaulted", you are maintaining that it is the imperative to take action prior to this. How does one anticipate the actions of another and with such a great consequence that weighs on the decision?

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm not sure where I said that though. Quote me to refresh my memory. However, if someone is attempting to block you or corner you, making threats and advancing upon you despite your protests, I think it's fair to use force to escape. Pull the gun on them and demand that they leave, if they refuse then fire.

 

[Bismillah]

Sure thing

So again, if I understand you correctly, are you implying doing physical harm prior to sexual assault?

In self defense yes.

 

[Bismillah]

However, if someone is attempting to block you or corner you, making threats and advancing upon you despite your protests, I think it's fair to use force to escape.

3/4 of those happen every time you pass by someone on the side walk.

 

[Father Heathen]

Sure thing

Surely you can differentiate between "shoot before getting touched" and "shoot before getting raped", right?

 

[Father Heathen]

3/4 of those happen every time you pass by someone on the side walk.

Wow. Did you really just say that? There is a very huge and obvious difference between someone who directly tries to threaten and intimidate you, attempts to corner you or block your exit and then close in on you than someone who is merely passing back on a sidewalk.

 

[Bismillah]

Surely you can differentiate between "shoot before getting touched" and "shoot before getting raped", right?

Sorry I confused you with Karl R who was talking about the imperative to take action

If a woman waits until I grab her, her weapon has already become my weapon.

There is a very huge and obvious difference between someone who directly tries to threaten and intimidate you, attempts to corner you or block your exit and then close in on you than someone who is merely passing back on a sidewalk.

Because a rapist always predates rape with "Surprise!" right? A person can easily be "blocked, cornered, or advanced upon" on any given stroll.

What are you going to do pull a gun on every man who walks past you in a "threatening manner"?

 

[Father Heathen]

What are you going to do pull a gun on every man who walks past you in a "threatening manner"?

No, because that quite obviously does not fit what I was describing, as I've previously explained. It's rather obvious when someone is being targeted.

As for shooting someone before touching you, if you pull a gun on someone and tell them to stop, yet they still approach, that's obviously hostile intent.