Should Abortion Be Made Illegal Based On The State You Live In?

[epronovost]

Maybe I have misunderstood. If human fetus is a human, why it is accepted to kill them?

Because they aren't persons and don't have any of the characteristics that make human life valuable and special in the first place.

 

[Muffled]

In my country, abortions are legal and free (they are covered by public healthcare) and I live in the Province where they are the more easily available since we have a good network of clinics and I am very happy of it. I think abortions are a necessary if perhapse overused method of birth control. I think access to free abortions if even ''just in case'' have improved social mobility, health and happiness. In Canada, the court judgement that legalised the practice is also a lot stronger than those of the US who, I must admit, are based on a more fragile reasonning.

I believe I expect that from heathen countries.

 

[Muffled]

My answer is no. I don't want religion mixed with government because I believe that the First Amendment guarantees that there is no state religion.

The attempt is by the far right to impose Christian Reconstructionism aka Theonomy (Rule by God's law) or Dominion theology.

In other words, the far right wants to make the USA's government resemble ISIS/Taliban except using the Bible rather than the Quran.

I believe for it to be equal justice then you have to allow murder of small children and adults also.

 

[epronovost]

I believe I expect that from heathen countries.

I'll take it as a compliment.

 

[Muffled]

The fetus being alive doesn't "trump the rights of the woman." The issue with abortion is whether the government (at any level) should have to power to force one person to have their body used against their will to keep another person alive. It shouldn't. This point is profoundly obvious when applied to any other situation. Why would we expect pregnant women to endure an injustice none of the rest of us would be satisfied to endure?

I believe if you park in a no parking zone and get a ticket that you can't use as a defense that it is your car and no-one has a right to tell you where to park. If you let a man park a baby in you the act has been committed and the consequences ensue.

 

[Muffled]

I've long thought that Roe v Wade was weak rationalization.
The reason I favor legal abortion is wonderfully expressed
in the 13th Amendment.....

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for
crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist
within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

To require someone to undergo full term pregnancy & giving birth
for the benefit of the child sure does look like involuntary servitude.
It also makes compulsory service unconstitutional. (One might argue
that taxation would be prohibited, but that is specifically dealt with
in the 16th Amendment.) Thus, the right to an abortion is a
constitutional right, & under the incorporation doctrine, the states
cannot deny it.

I believe by extension then that raising a child is involuntary servitude also. You would undermine the very fabric of society.

 

[metis]

The Catholics don't agree with you.

Perhaps you are mistaking the Pope for the RCC?
It's an easy mistake for someone who was Jewish last year to make. But that's not how Mother Church does things.
Tom

They've been consistent on this and, as matter of fact, the most recent copy of "America" magazine (Jesuit), covers this, including quotes from several of the most recent Popes on capital punishment. Pope Francis spoke out against it just recently, for example.

I have to leave now for dinner, but if you can't find sources for this please let me know as I'll be back on-line tomorrow morning.

 

[Muffled]

Abortion is legal in the UK. That is good.

But, the fact that I support a woman's right to have an abortion does NOT mean I am encouraging it. It should be an option, usually only implemented if all other options have been eliminated. It should be only done in the early stages and very rarely in the later months.
Abortion should be accompanied with improved sex education for all kids; free access to contraceptives, promotion of the likes of Planned Parenthood.
For those women who decide to retain the child and give birth, there should be free clinics and welfare for the child. For women who decide to abort there should be counselling not condemnation.

I believe it isn't good for any country and there is no right to commit murder.

 

[Left Coast]

I believe if you park in a no parking zone and get a ticket that you can't use as a defense that it is your car and no-one has a right to tell you where to park. If you let a man park a baby in you the act has been committed and the consequences ensue.

No one "let's a man park a baby in them." That isn't how conception works. And sex isn't illegal. Your analogy is painfully flawed.

 

[Revoltingest]

I believe by extension then that raising a child is involuntary servitude also. You would undermine the very fabric of society.

Not so.
Children can be given up.
And yet, the fabric isn't undermined.

Are you defending involuntary servitude?
Do you oppose the 13th Amendment.

 

[Altfish]

I believe it isn't good for any country and there is no right to commit murder.

I'm pleased for you.
But I do not believe looking after the health of a woman is murder.
What welfare after birth do you propose for your mother and child?

 

[viole]

First, abortion is a "constitutional" right. However, there isn't strong basis for it.

"Abortion is not a constitutional right according to the strict text of the Constitution, but it has been justified as a constitutional right under the Fourth Amendment’s protection of privacy. In short, the constitutional right to abortion is found not in the Constitution itself, but in a loose reading of it.

This constitutional argument is often used by pro-abortionists. As former U.S. President Barack Obama once asserted, “I remain committed to protecting a woman’s right to choose and this fundamental constitutional right.”1 Obama, once a law professor, should have known that this right doesn’t actually exist ― the Supreme Court literally conjured it out of thin air."

Why You’re Told There’s a Constitutional Right to Abortion

One of the arguments against it is the right of the unborn fetus and when life begins.

Only life begats life, so it appears science backs up the Bible and that life begins at conception.

"Human Life comes into existence in just a fraction of an instant. You have a human egg and a human sperm and their sole purpose in life is to meet each other and fuse, to create a one cell human being."

When Does Life Begin | Just The Facts

"“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
and before you were born jI consecrated you;
I appointed you a prophet kto the nations.” Jeremiah 1:5

Thus, there is a factual case to be made for a fetus' rights.

Thus, these rights could trump the rights of the woman.

Thus, I thought what would be a good start to change.

How can the Supreme Court change this? Does it have to be at their level?

"There are three major ways in which a Supreme Court decision can be overturned.

If the decision is based on a law that Congress has passed, Congress can simply change the law. The Court sometimes has to rule on how they think laws made by Congress apply to certain cases. If Congress thinks the Court has gotten it wrong, they can change the law to make things clearer."

Finally, if anyone can clarify the issues I listed and linked to above, then please add your intelligent comments.

Also, read the poll question before voting. It is asking to make it a state's rights issue in lieu of Fourth Amendment rights.

Wrong forum. This should be under north american politics.

ciao

- viole

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm pleased for you.
But I do not believe looking after the health of a woman is murder.
What welfare after birth do you propose for your mother and child?

We shouldn't confuse bodily autonomy of
a pregnant woman with welfare services.

 

[columbus]

Because they aren't persons and don't have any of the characteristics that make human life valuable and special in the first place.

Black people are persons either, according to many Christians.

How about we leave the subjective word "person" out of the discussion, and stick to objective terms like "human being"?

How about we discuss the moral principle "It is wrong for human beings to choose death for other human beings."?
Perhaps you don't want to because you think that killing human beings is OK, if a human being interferes with your preferences?
Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

Black people are persons either, according to many Christians.

How about we leave the subjective word "person" out of the discussion, and stick to objective terms like "human being"?

How about we discuss the moral principle "It is wrong for human beings to choose death for other human beings."?
Perhaps you don't want to because you think that killing human beings is OK, if a human being interferes with your preferences?
Tom

You're OK with killing humans.
It's about the circumstances.
So simplistically saying that it's wrong evades the complexities.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Maybe I have misunderstood. If human fetus is a human, why it is accepted to kill them?

"Human" yes, but arguably not a person. If you understood the Bible you would see that it does not treat fetuses as people.

 

[Revoltingest]

"Human" yes, but arguably not a person. If you understood the Bible you would see that it does not treat fetuses as people.

A problem is getting pro-lifers to face that even they don't accord a
fetus full status of a person. (Note that even the Bible places it lower
than a person.) They generally don't equate a fertilized egg with a
baby (one born). So there's an in-between period the don't address.
Add to this that many of them say its a person, yet if the mother has
been raped then the "baby" can be killed. It's very inconsistent.

 

[shmogie]

Why can't you understand that in my opinion roe fails as good law, so regardless of it, the premeditated death of another is murder.
IT IS AN OPINION. I have every right to express an opinion in whatever terms I choose.

You know this, yet you want to quibble over terminology.

There were people before the civil war, when slavery was legal, who said that according to the Constitution, slavery was illegal, a crime.

Do you think that they just couldn't grasp the proper terminology?

 

[Altfish]

We shouldn't confuse bodily autonomy of
a pregnant woman with welfare services.

I think if we are demanding women give birth, the consequences of doing so have to be catered for.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think if we are demanding women give birth, the consequences of doing so have to be catered for.

To demand giving birth unwillingly is the fundamental problem.
Paying for the baby's & mother's care doesn't make that legit.
Don't buy into the bogus liberal argument that abortion is OK
because conservatives oppose social welfare programs.