Should Bernie Sanders be holding a political office

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And being screened out of a government job for (in a private paper) agreeing with a quote by Jesus in a chapter central to the New Testament is???????? see John 3:18

Bernie was sadly mistaken

And of course such a litmus test is unconstitutional

The Bible also says "suffer not a witch to live," but it would also be perfectly justifiable to refuse to hire someone because they had murdered a witch.

This isn't religious discrimination; it's discrimination based on the content of his character.

It's you who's asking for the religious test: that religious people should get a free pass on bad behaviour if their bad behaviour was motivated by their religion.

 

[whirlingmerc]

The Bible also says "suffer not a witch to live," but it would also be perfectly justifiable to refuse to hire someone because they had murdered a witch.

This isn't religious discrimination; it's discrimination based on the content of his character.

It's you who's asking for the religious test: that religious people should get a free pass on bad behaviour if their bad behaviour was motivated by their religion.

Bottom line, Bernie is illegally violating article IV of the constitution making a religious test for office
He was making an issue of a statement from John 3. Of course Wheaton College and someone who went there would believe it.

On the subject of the Old Testament, suffer not a witch to live was the bad excuse the medieval church used to burn Bible translators

 

[Subduction Zone]

Bottom line, Bernie is illegally violating article IV of the constitution making a religious test for office

Nope. This has been explained to you countless times. He went after him for what he did, not for his Christian beliefs.

Why aren't you mad at the Christian for throwing the Bible under the bus?

 

[whirlingmerc]

Nope. This has been explained to you countless times. He went after him for what he did, not for his Christian beliefs.

Why aren't you mad at the Christian for throwing the Bible under the bus?

The belief of the idividual (which was explaining a belief of Wheaton college and direct quote of Jesus) Bernie Sanders attacked was directly from John 3:18
Is he Biblically illiterate?

Psalms book 4: An invitation to join the global chorus for the shephe…

 

[Subduction Zone]

The belief of the idividual (which was explaining a belief of Wheaton college and direct quote of Jesus) Bernie Sanders attacked was directly from John 3:18
Is he Biblically illiterate?

Psalms book 4: An invitation to join the global chorus for the shephe…

Did you forget who he attacked in that bit of "free speech"? Once again, Bernie said no because of the attack on Muslims. Not for the belief.

Bernie is not biblically illiterate. But you dodged a question.

Why are you not mad at the candidate for throwing the Bible under the bus?

 

[Mindmaster]

I'm against equality being "overly enforced". Again, Bernie is not communist. He is a democratic socialist, which is different.

No, it's not really. Not in his mind, but even he knows America as a whole will not vote for pure communism. So, take "transitional communism" put the "democratic socialist" badge on it and there you go. Democratic socialism is a polite way of saying, "this is as much communism as America will tolerate, but we'd go all the way if we could."

And, yeah, worthless do nothings is a fitting analysis for most of the people struggling. In America, education at all levels is nearly free or even where it is not the payments are deferred until you are actually producing an income. I don't think you can use your origin as an excuse -- if you go to school and do the time - you will receive the pay if your apply yourself. Sure, you might attend a community college rather than some ivy league -- but you're certainly not going to be stuck in the ghetto even if you're born there. What keeps people poor is poor life choices not where they're from or otherwise where they started. If you spend all your money on drugs, beer, and entertainment that's why you're poor.

That being said I'm not a complete capitalist on all issues I still realize if people have to worry about eating bad things happen -- I'm cool with the public resources being used to prevent hunger. I don't care, however, if you have to live under someones stairs like Harry Potter or crash a couch for eternity. I know people who just work as gas station clerks that make enough money for a cheap home.... I don't really think that's a problem the government needs to get involved with. Nearly any job with an average wage above a starter job makes enough to at least afford that much. (Which in my neck of the woods is about $600/mo. Which you could pay for with about $7.50/hr in income... But, we could say 8-9 due to taxes. But, realistically, I'd say you need about $15/hr to maintain that living. Most full time jobs in my area will pay at least that much, so it's pretty much a non-factor. If you don't have a home and make that much you're just poor at managing your income -- it's not a government problem.)

I'm, OK, with helping people with food costs mostly because I don't really support the idea of making people have to choose between food or mortgage/rent. Hunger causes riots, crime, and a whole host of other problems. The cost is small in comparison to the damages that occur if you don't avoid the problem actively.

I was born poor, so I won't buy the excuses. If you don't at least move into the middle class through some sweat you're just lazy -- it's not that hard. A couple flipping burgers full time in my state could easily afford a home, car, and have all the basics. Most of those burger flipping jobs will pay for your college tuition as well. (I know most chains and even Walmart does this.) There are so many ways to get free training expense is not a reason, IMHO. You just need to apply yourself and use the resources that are available.

 

[PureX]

Someone believing John 3 should not hold office? That''s coo coo for cocoa puffs.

If your religion precludes you from touching meat, you should hire on as a chef. Instead, these zealots want to be hired on as chefs so they can force everyone else to be vegetarian. If you refuse to recognize this as a problem, then that's YOUR problem.

 

[Terese]

No, it's not really. Not in his mind, but even he knows America as a whole will not vote for pure communism. So, take "transitional communism" put the "democratic socialist" badge on it and there you go. Democratic socialism is a polite way of saying, "this is as much communism as America will tolerate, but we'd go all the way if we could."

And, yeah, worthless do nothings is a fitting analysis for most of the people struggling. In America, education at all levels is nearly free or even where it is not the payments are deferred until you are actually producing an income. I don't think you can use your origin as an excuse -- if you go to school and do the time - you will receive the pay if your apply yourself. Sure, you might attend a community college rather than some ivy league -- but you're certainly not going to be stuck in the ghetto even if you're born there. What keeps people poor is poor life choices not where they're from or otherwise where they started. If you spend all your money on drugs, beer, and entertainment that's why you're poor.

That being said I'm not a complete capitalist on all issues I still realize if people have to worry about eating bad things happen -- I'm cool with the public resources being used to prevent hunger. I don't care, however, if you have to live under someones stairs like Harry Potter or crash a couch for eternity. I know people who just work as gas station clerks that make enough money for a cheap home.... I don't really think that's a problem the government needs to get involved with. Nearly any job with an average wage above a starter job makes enough to at least afford that much. (Which in my neck of the woods is about $600/mo. Which you could pay for with about $7.50/hr in income... But, we could say 8-9 due to taxes. But, realistically, I'd say you need about $15/hr to maintain that living. Most full time jobs in my area will pay at least that much, so it's pretty much a non-factor. If you don't have a home and make that much you're just poor at managing your income -- it's not a government problem.)

I'm, OK, with helping people with food costs mostly because I don't really support the idea of making people have to choose between food or mortgage/rent. Hunger causes riots, crime, and a whole host of other problems. The cost is small in comparison to the damages that occur if you don't avoid the problem actively.

I was born poor, so I won't buy the excuses. If you don't at least move into the middle class through some sweat you're just lazy -- it's not that hard. A couple flipping burgers full time in my state could easily afford a home, car, and have all the basics. Most of those burger flipping jobs will pay for your college tuition as well. (I know most chains and even Walmart does this.) There are so many ways to get free training expense is not a reason, IMHO. You just need to apply yourself and use the resources that are available.

I disagree with most of what you said but thank you for humouring me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Bottom line, Bernie is illegally violating article IV of the constitution making a religious test for office

No, he isn't. "No religious test" doesn't mean the government can't have reasonable requirements for positions.

The American government serves all of its citizens, including the Muslim ones, so if a public officer is incapable of treating Muslims respectfully and fairly, then they're unqualified for the office.

... even if the reason they're incapable is their religious beliefs.

 

[whirlingmerc]

No, he isn't. "No religious test" doesn't mean the government can't have reasonable requirements for positions.

The American government serves all of its citizens, including the Muslim ones, so if a public officer is incapable of treating Muslims respectfully and fairly, then they're unqualified for the office.

... even if the reason they're incapable is their religious beliefs.

Disqualifying someone who actually believes John 3:16 is not a reasonable requirement.

Basically Sanders is demanding we require someone who's orthoproxy is one of postmodern/universalist/atheist and disconnected from their orthodoxy. That is effectively an estabilishment of a national religion where orthoproxy is one of postmodern/universalist/atheist

Basically it's a throwback to being like the days of the Church of England prior to the constitution where there were similar religious tests, only now it's the Church of Bernie where orthoproxy is one of postmodern/universalist/atheist and disconnected from their orthodoxy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Disqualifying someone who actually believes John 3:16 is not a reasonable requirement.

Basically Sanders is demanding we require someone who's orthoproxy is one of postmodern/universalist/atheist and disconnected from their orthodoxy. That is effectively an estabilishment of a national religion where orthoproxy is one of postmodern/universalist/atheist

Basically it's a throwback to being like the days of the Church of England prior to the constitution where there were similar religious tests, only now it's the Church of Bernie where orthoproxy is one of postmodern/universalist/atheist and disconnected from their orthodoxy.

For the umpteenth time he was not disqualified for his beliefs.

 

[whirlingmerc]

For the umpteenth time he was not disqualified for his beliefs.

He was disqualified for believing his beliefs, namely really beliving John 3:16 that God gave his only begotten Son THAT NO ONE SHOULD PERISH but have eternal life.

If he was inconsistent and didn't act of his core beliefs that would make him qualified for office?
To be qualified to be part of the church of Bernie you say you believe something but don't really act on it. That's weird.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He was disqualified for believing his beliefs, namely really beliving John 3:16 that God gave his only begotten Son THAT NO ONE SHOULD PERISH but have eternal life.

If he was inconsistent and didn't act of his core beliefs that would make him qualified for office?

To be qualified to be part of the church of Bernie you say you believe something but don't really act on it. That's weird.

No, he was disqualified for acting on those beliefs. Just as a person that followed the Bible and killed nonbelievers would be put in prison. A person has the right to those beliefs, he does not have the right to act on them. The action that disqualified him was a public statement that was Islamophobic. A public official cannot afford to openly hate any religion. And that includes Christianity.

 

[Twilight Hue]

......
Again, Bernie is not communist. He is a democratic socialist, which is different.

Actually Bernie is a Marxist. There is no denying it.

He campaigned for the Marxist (Socialist Workers Party) party at the time of the 1980 to 1984 presidential election during the Reagan years. He openly endorsed Andrew Pulley.

 

[whirlingmerc]

No, he was disqualified for acting on those beliefs. Just as a person that followed the Bible and killed nonbelievers would be put in prison. A person has the right to those beliefs, he does not have the right to act on them. The action that disqualified him was a public statement that was Islamophobic. A public official cannot afford to openly hate any religion. And that includes Christianity.

Saying people who reject Jesus saving work on the cross are not saved is not 'Islamophobic'
That's just 'speaking the truth in love'

 

[Subduction Zone]

Saying people who reject Jesus saving work on the cross are not saved is not 'Islamophobic'
That's just 'speaking the truth in love'

Muslims would typically say people who reject Mohamed are not going to be saved. Is that Christian-phobic?

But since you're an atheist, perhaps you are more comfortable with religious sounding people who are functional atheists?

He went further than that. You need to watch the video again.

There is a difference between being "saved" and what was claimed.

 

[whirlingmerc]

He went further than that. You need to watch the video again.

There is a difference between being "saved" and what was claimed.

He basically stated what is in John 3:18 that is 'speaking the truth in love' and something Christians would classically believe for 2000 years

That was the real issue.

 

[Terese]

Actually Bernie is a Marxist. There is no denying it.

He campaigned for the Marxist (Socialist Workers Party) party at the time of the 1980 to 1984 presidential election during the Reagan years. He openly endorsed Andrew Pulley.

It is possible for people to change their views.

 

[Subduction Zone]

He basically stated what is in John 3:18 that is 'speaking the truth in love' and something Christians would classically believe for 2000 years

That was the real issue.

It was how he stated it. Too bad that you cannot see what he did wrong. He acted like a jerk, where he believed what he stated or not is besides the point. Then he tried to blame it on the Bible.

Let me try to explain it to you, but you should be able to understand it yourself. Muslims believe that they are going to their version of heaven. Christians believe that they are going to their version of heaven. It is a jerk thing to say "you are going to hell because you do not believe the same as I do" regardless of one's religion. If a Muslim claimed that all Christians are going to hell then a public government job is not in their future. The same applies to a Christian that makes that error.

I know that you are doomed to drinking skunky beer and getting dances from strippers with venereal diseases. How does that make you fee? Probably not too bad since you know that I am not very serious, but if someone sincerely wished that upon you you would not be a happy camper.