Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

[danieldemol]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I was reading this passage for context;

'Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

 

[1213]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I think they should not, it is not fair. And I think people should be free to not pay at all, because in my opinion mandatory taxation is slavery and I don't want to keep anyone as a slave.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

I think Jesus is not supporting mandatory taxation. Only that people should give Caesar what is Caesars. Which leads to question, why would people have anything that is Caesars at the first place. Maybe people who want to be Caesars should be ignored entirely.

 

[rocala]

Let us say that Jesus said o.k. do not pay taxes. The Romans go along with this and now they can't pay their troops. So some other group take over or there is conquest from outside., and you can bet they will demand taxes.

Of course the Romans would not have gone along with it. There would have been serious repercussions and suffering. Either way, Jesus gets the blame.

This was not about taxation IMO, it was about not getting caught up in futile gestures (the "trap") and fighting a lost battle. I think he handled it pretty well.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I was reading this passage for context;

'Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

Oh yes. IMHO he would be preaching against the evils of capitalism and be for a more collective way of life, if he had an earthly ministry today.

 

[danieldemol]

Which leads to question, why would people have anything that is Caesars at the first place.

Its an interesting question, do you have any money? If so given the context of the question was whether the "imperial tax" should be paid or not I would suggest that you have something a portion of which belongs to the government as well.

 

[Heyo]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I was reading this passage for context;

'Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

I'm all for progressive taxation and I think that the Gospels are, in their messages, as far left as the OT is far right.
So, yes, I think a Christian could make a case that voting for progressive taxes is a Christian thing.

But what is much more important is that taxes are a political thing and religion should refrain from politics. Whenever church and state have mingled, it was bad for the church and bad for the people.

So, in conclusion, Christians, as Christians, should refrain for commenting on progressive taxes.
(They should be promoting them as compassionate citizens.)

 

[1213]

Its an interesting question, do you have any money? If so given the context of the question was whether the "imperial tax" should be paid or not I would suggest that you have something a portion of which belongs to the government as well.

Do you think all money belongs to the government?

Maybe that would be a good reason to start using for example Bitcoin? Although I don't like it either.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you think all money belongs to the government?

That seems to be Jesus's implication when he holds up the coin and asks whose face is on it.

Maybe that would be a good reason to start using for example Bitcoin? Although I don't like it either.

Wouldn't stuff that you buy with Caesar's money also belong to Caesar?

 

[wellwisher]

Christians believe in charity, more than they do taxes. This Christian approach gives each person more control over how and what they can give. Some can give their time much easy than their money. Also, why give your money to corrupt politicians who often use that money to buy votes or invest in their own golden parachutes?

Christians believe in the ethic of hard work with charity, therefore, more for a social safety net; help in periodic hard times.They do not see charity being used for social hammocks, where people recline between elections, waiting to vote Democrat. Sloth is a deadly sin. Christianity reached a high historical position due to hard work, not reclining.

As another example, student loan forgiveness would not be seen as a proper charity, since this is about adults who had fours years of fun and made an adult business contract. Contracts are like giving your word; honesty and conscience The consequences of bad judgements are a life lesson and incentive to plan better the next time.

However, Christians would have had a talk with the Universities, who have all the student money in their coffers. They and make sure they see the problem their greed created, and their need for charity, forgiveness and atonement, less they burn on hell. Christians did not believe taxes should be used to buy votes, with no lessons lessened other than crime does pay if you vote D.

Charity can also be useful as a way to get rid of taxes all together. For example, say a good Christian family, with extra room in their home, invites an immigrant family to stay, until they get on their feet. The immigrants are mostly South American Christians, so they will be helpful to their own needs and ends; big family. This charity will still have an opportunity cost for the primary family, and should be seen as a charitable tax offset, at full fair market value. This way giving could be more personal, and it could bypass the wasteful bureaucracy; do more giving for less. Waste is a sin and this way the faithful do not have to give tax money to sin and Satan.

In this light, I like the idea of people; all citizens regardless of faith or not, have the option to provide the same services as government, via charity, but at full market value tax offset, and not just as a tax deduction. For example, if a person had to pay $2000 in Federal taxes, they can have a homeless person over for dinner, at $10 per day for 200 days and have no tax obligation; full charitable offset. We do not need all the middle man skim and waste when you have charity. This intimacy with the homeless person may even allow that person a new positive look on life; born again to do their own good works.

There are many big hearted, stay at home mothers, who could take in some extra welfare children; day care. They could get full tax credit based on full government cost per child, in the current sterile and wasteful bureaucratic environment. We do not need Big Bother boosted with taxes, when little brother government is more genuine and likes to give more than take.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As another example, student loan forgiveness would not be seen as a proper charity, since this is about adults who had fours years of fun and made an adult business contract. Contracts are like giving your word. The consequences are a life lesson to plan better the next time.

Deut 15:1-2:

At the end of every seven years you must declare a cancellation of debts. 2 This is the nature of the cancellation: Every creditor must remit what he has loaned to another person; he must not force payment from his fellow Israelite, for it is to be recognized as “the Lord’s cancellation of debts.”

Matt 6:9-13:

So pray this way:

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored,
10 may your kingdom come,
may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread,
12 and forgive us our debts, as we ourselves have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.

 

[Kenny]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I was reading this passage for context;

'Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

Yes… Christians should pay taxes. The progressive tax isn’t addressed here. What is addressed in other areas is that we should consider the poor

There are pros and cons to a progressive tax and is ultimately a personal viewpoint as to which way one can go.

 

[Kathryn]

Yes… Christians should pay taxes. The progressive tax isn’t addressed here. What is addressed in other areas is that we should consider the poor

There are pros and cons to a progressive tax and is ultimately a personal viewpoint as to which way one can go.

Bingo - you said it all.

 

[Kathryn]

Oh and no one owes me anything so I can't forgive anyone of any debts. I can, however, forgive others of trespassing against me.

 

[metis]

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

He probably would, as taxing the poor is counterproductive.

 

[1213]

That seems to be Jesus's implication when he holds up the coin and asks whose face is on it.

It is also possible that Jesus doesn't think so, only that we should give Caesar what is Caesars. Usually it is the best to remain in what Jesus actually said and add nothing own to it. It is little worrying, if governments think they are the Caesar.

Wouldn't stuff that you buy with Caesar's money also belong to Caesar?

I think you should ask that from Caesar. He probably thinks so.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I was reading this passage for context;

'Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

I think income tax is a complicated subject. Can you judge how to progressively tax based only upon income?

3 scenarios:
A man works at Blockbuster Video part time, make $12,000 per year and spends most of his time playing video games living in a trailer on a plot of land he owns; and his income tax is 30%. He carefully avoids over spending, so that he doesn't have to work a lot. He likes doing very little, and so he pays only 30% tax. The family man with 8 kids is making $100,000 by working two full time jobs, pays 40% tax and can't afford swimming lessons for his kids (but he could if his tax was only 30%). Another person has inherited board memberships on charities worth 20 million dollars and receives salaries from them totaling $100,000 per year. This charity-heir gets paid the same as the family man working 2 jobs, pays 40% tax but isn't at all troubled by the tax. He's not working 2 full time jobs and isn't dealing with family problems. He doesn't 'Own' the charities but controls them and gets 100 grand per year.

 

[bobhikes]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I was reading this passage for context;

'Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

In my opinion, The New testament which teaches about what Christ wants indicates Christ does not want you involved in government at all but improving yourself through love and being a disciple teaching others of his love. Most Christians however refer more to the old testament ignoring the new testaments teaching which are hard to follow for a normal person

 

[danieldemol]

I think income tax is a complicated subject. Can you judge how to progressively tax based only upon income?

3 scenarios:
A man works at Blockbuster Video part time, make $12,000 per year and spends most of his time playing video games living in a trailer on a plot of land he owns; and his income tax is 30%. He carefully avoids over spending, so that he doesn't have to work a lot. He likes doing very little, and so he pays only 30% tax. The family man with 8 kids is making $100,000 by working two full time jobs, pays 40% tax and can't afford swimming lessons for his kids (but he could if his tax was only 30%). Another person has inherited board memberships on charities worth 20 million dollars and receives salaries from them totaling $100,000 per year. This charity-heir gets paid the same as the family man working 2 jobs, pays 40% tax but isn't at all troubled by the tax. He's not working 2 full time jobs and isn't dealing with family problems. He doesn't 'Own' the charities but controls them and gets 100 grand per year.

These days having 8 kids is a choice, you may as well plead for a person who has 8 cars to be taxed less in my view.

The individual may receive parenting payments from tax collected if the kids are at risk of starvation, homelessness etc but I see no reason to reward his irresponsible family planning with tax breaks.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

Should Christians support progressive tax systems?

I was reading this passage for context;

'Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. 16 They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. 17 Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax[a] to Caesar or not?”

18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? 19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, 20 and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”'

So it would seem clear enough to me that Jesus supported paying taxes, what is not so clear is if he supported progressive taxation.

Your thoughts?

Good morning danieldemol.

Perhaps the reason you ask this question is because you have not considered Yahweh's Law. Yahweh's Law is light. It's synonymous with light in the Bible. Whenever we encounter darkness, confusion or ambiguity in the direction of our life, we should consult Yahweh's Law. Most Chr-stians don't believe in consulting Yahweh's Law and therefore they are in darkness. They are walking in darkness, clearly another word for lawlessness, and don't even know it: "For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; And reproofs of instruction are the way of life" (Proverbs 6:23), also see 1 John 2:3 "And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him".

Yahshua came for many reasons to this earth, one of those reasons was to guide His people to the Kingdom. To give them light.

John 8:12
"Again therefore Yahshua spake unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life."

We follow Yahshua by keeping the commandments, just as He did.

To address your question, we are commanded in the Law to pay a flat 10% tithe to Yahweh in the Bible, see Leviticus 27:30-33. That money is reserved for Yahweh. We owe Yahweh that money for creating us and allowing us to use this earth which is His, for ourselves. The second tithe is another 10% which Yahweh has said is for use by *us* to enable us to keep His Law, specifically so we can travel to and enjoy His holy days (Deuteronomy 14:22-26). Yahweh is incredibly merciful and His Law has enabled us to, without even thinking, have enough to get to the Holy Days each year, simply by tithing our wages. Every three years there is a third year tithe which is given to those who are disadvantaged, especially those who are poor and struggling financially (Deuteronomy 14:28, Deuteronomy 26:12).

If the Laws were put in to practice, what a difference it would make! The capitalistic system that dominates our society today would be terminated in favor of a free enterprise system. There would be no exorbitant interest rates demanded for borrowed money. Immediately, the economic system (under which the Kingdom of Yahweh government will be functioning) will be healthy as never before, just as Yahweh intended.

Furthermore, I can attest that tithing teaches a much valuable lesson to mankind which is that we are to remember Yahweh in all our increase and learn to be giving to Yahweh. We all want our children to be giving, and not avaricious (at least I hope so) and having tithed from a youth up, I know that this Law has had that effect on my life. Give to Yahweh's what is Yahweh's, which is tithes and free-will offerings, and give to Caesar, the governments which require taxes, what they demand, because despite the fact that they have been known to exist tyrannical powers, the governments of the world must function and without government, anarchy would prevail and evil would be pervasive.

 

[Brickjectivity]

These days having 8 kids is a choice, you may as well plead for a person who has 8 cars to be taxed less in my view.

The individual may receive parenting payments from tax collected if the kids are at risk of starvation, homelessness etc but I see no reason to reward his irresponsible family planning with tax breaks.

I can see what you mean.

Returning to your OP I think the ideal is that all people share resources instead of fighting over the resources, but we may be as close to that ideal as we will be in our lifetimes though we may see some improvement. We may also see things get worse.