Should Gays Forgive Abrahamics?

[Brickjectivity]

I think that's very insightful. Most ignored things tend to slip quietly into obscurity.

I disagree. Things that we ignore tend to get worse.

 

[Marisa]

Well quite frankly anti-gay violence was not a major issue for most Abrahamics until very recently. Indeed, today in the Islamic world it is often state policy. And yes fascists are wretched but so what? They hate everyone, and plenty of them are very culturally Christian when it suits them.

Well there's no need to speak out against something that isn't "going against the flow". It's when LGBTQ have the audacity to demand equal treatment under the law that must be marched against. So long as they stay in the closet where the "rest of us" don't have to acknowledge them, we can all "get along".

 

[Marisa]

I disagree. Things that we ignore tend to get worse.

Well I can't argue that. I suppose I think that if religion is ignored, it will slip quieting into cultural identity as it has in much of Europe. Of course, there's always some upstart that's willing to do whatever heinous thing is necessary to get people to look at them.

 

[Marisa]

Forgive and forget. It is showing a lack of character to not forgive, in all circumstances.

Oh I definitely don't agree with that. My problem with "forgive" is it tends to connote that one is okay with having been screwed over. It's much more beneficial to one's own mental health to accept that another is just an ******* and likely will never be anything else. That's called acceptance, and it's much easier to cut the negative element out of your life when you acknowledge it for what it is.

 

[columbus]

The news is often filled with stories of anti-gay churches, synagogues and (far less frequently) mosques repenting of their anti-gay past to embrace equality for gay people, even sometimes the full spectrum of LGBT people.

Where is this? I've not seen the news full of such stories. Occasionally a religious organization lets a bit of modern morality slip out because the leadership is more sophisticated than the rank and file, and a bunch of pewsitters decamp for Africa or somewhere(spiritually).
Tom

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I am unable to forgive anyone who isn't apologetic.

Some institutions are still blatantly misogynist and homophobic. Because of that, I prefer to keep my distance, but speak up if their misogyny and homophobia attempts to march in or weasel in to law over all.

When apologetic for blatant mistreatment, I shall forgive.

 

[StarryNightshade]

I quite frankly don't care. We should tackle homophobia, but I don't feel a need to "forgive" any religion if it plays no real part in my life. Besides, the faiths themselves aren't the issue; it's some of the followers.

 

[Desert Snake]

Oh I definitely don't agree with that. My problem with "forgive" is it tends to connote that one is okay with having been screwed over. It's much more beneficial to one's own mental health to accept that another is just an ******* and likely will never be anything else. That's called acceptance, and it's much easier to cut the negative element out of your life when you acknowledge it for what it is.

I would consider the context of the thread. The OP title, at least, is not even addressing people, it's addressing religions.

 

[oldbadger]

Because Christ didn't say "Love your neighbour, but only if they're straight".

So why blame Jesus for all this?
True Christians don't have an issue with this, then.
So the other lot(s).... the bigots, cannot truly be Christian, and so.......... *sticks tongue out*

 

[oldbadger]

A darned good question, this in the OP.

Religions that claim to know what is better for everyone should always be challenged.

Any group that claims to know what's better for everyone should be challenged!

 

[columbus]

I don't feel a need to "forgive" any religion if it plays no real part in my life.

If the religions didn't, I would agree with you. But they do.
Religious groups like the Mormons and Baptists are using their tax deductible donations to push legal actions that have a big enough impact on your life.

At least advocate that they use their own money, instead of demanding special tax status from the government while also advocating legal inequality for citizens of the USA.
Tom

 

[Marisa]

I would consider the context of the thread. The OP title, at least, is not even addressing people, it's addressing religions.

Religions tend to be horrifying things, particularly the Abrahamic. The religiOUS can be a different story. Some, bolstered by their belief that their god is behind them, portray the most negative aspect of their belief. I'm thinking Westboro, and their penchant for disrupting people mourning the loss of a loved one, with their live action theatrical presentation of the OT.

 

[JoStories]

The news is often filled with stories of anti-gay churches, synagogues and (far less frequently) mosques repenting of their anti-gay past to embrace equality for gay people, even sometimes the full spectrum of LGBT people.

To me, however, there is a lingering unanswered and usually unasked question: Should gay people forgive the homophobia of Abrahamic religions? If so, why? If not, why not? Not a pressing question, to be sure, but an interesting one.

Most here know I am bi, and for me, since I don't believe in those religions, I really don't care one whit.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I guess the millions of LGBT Christians, such as myself, don't count or don't exist. It's not either/or. Like I said, people need to grow up on both sides of the debate.

 

[Deidre]

The news is often filled with stories of anti-gay churches, synagogues and (far less frequently) mosques repenting of their anti-gay past to embrace equality for gay people, even sometimes the full spectrum of LGBT people.

To me, however, there is a lingering unanswered and usually unasked question: Should gay people forgive the homophobia of Abrahamic religions? If so, why? If not, why not? Not a pressing question, to be sure, but an interesting one.

I don't think that the Abrahamic religions are asking for forgiveness. They seem content in their bigotry.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Judaism and Christianity have vibrant and burgeoning progressive movements and sects. The process is just beginning in Islam. Most religious people are not fundamentalist. More and more are progressive.

I don't know about Judaism. Christianity has made some progress but still has a long way to go. Islam just has a long way to go.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The news is often filled with stories of anti-gay churches, synagogues and (far less frequently) mosques repenting of their anti-gay past to embrace equality for gay people, even sometimes the full spectrum of LGBT people.

To me, however, there is a lingering unanswered and usually unasked question: Should gay people forgive the homophobia of Abrahamic religions? If so, why? If not, why not? Not a pressing question, to be sure, but an interesting one.

I voted Other, but I'm hardly invested in the question.
Still, the way I look at this stuff is always around 'What are you trying to achieve?'

So in South Africa, what was the end of apartheid supposed to achieve? Replacement of White power with Black power? I mean, that would be understandable, in a lot of ways. But a far nobler and more worthy goal is equality.

The OP also assumes (in a way) that the two groups are distinct. Should an LGBT Christian be forgiven?

Meh. I voted other. By all means, call out people who are not fair, call out the bigots, etc. But when someone embraces diversity, it might be more effective to continue focusing on the remaining bigots, and the new converts can add their voices to the ground swell. Something like that, anyway.

 

[Jainarayan]

No. Forgiveness implies reciprocity. I don't see Christianity on the whole making any attempt to make amends for the edicts, comments and un-Christian behavior towards non-heterosexuals. Someone at another site summed up the Heathen perspective, which of course I adhere to: Forgiveness is not a concept familiar to heathenry. ... when a Christian feels he has done something wrong he asks "Will you forgive me?" When a heathen feels he has done something wrong he asks "How can I make it up to you?" I have yet to see Christianity, especially the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, and the fundamentalist evangelists make any effort to say "How can we make this right?"

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No. Forgiveness implies reciprocity. I don't see Christianity on the whole making any attempt to make amends for the edicts, comments and un-Christian behavior towards non-heterosexuals. Someone at another site summed up the Heathen perspective, which of course I adhere to: Forgiveness is not a concept familiar to heathenry. ... when a Christian feels he has done something wrong he asks "Will you forgive me?" When a heathen feels he has done something wrong he asks "How can I make it up to you?" I have yet to see Christianity, especially the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, and the fundamentalist evangelists make any effort to say "How can we make this right?"

I have the same feelings toward reciprocity.

However, I still maintain that misogyny and homophobia as official stances have no apology, save for the "Sorry, but this is what God says. You shouldn't be mad at me for telling you what God wants."

Sweet mercy, shame on us queers for having the guts to say we don't like being mistreated or dehumanized. I guess we're "a-ok", as long as we know our place.

 

[Jainarayan]

However, I still maintain that misogyny and homophobia as official stances have no apology, save for the "Sorry, but this is what God says. You shouldn't be mad at me for telling you what God wants."

There's definitely no excuse... not ignorance, not God made me do it, not the devil made me do it. That's why they won't get forgiveness from me. And if there's nothing they can do to make it up to us, oh freakin' well, they decided to be hateful. I'm under no obligation to give them a pass.

A perfect example of such hatred was a number of years ago when a Catholic high school barred We Are The Champions from being played at the graduation ceremony because Freddie Mercury was gay. I kid you not, you can't make this stuff up.