Zoe Doidge
Basically a Goddess
Firstly, who cares? The whole point of making it legal is that we don't see it as wrong.
Secondly, we need only look to countries that have legalized it to see what changes. The answer is the square root of bugger all.
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Should incest be banned?
- Thread starter nnmartin
- Start date
Firstly, who cares? The whole point of making it legal is that we don't see it as wrong.
Secondly, we need only look to countries that have legalized it to see what changes. The answer is the square root of bugger all.
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
why on earth should we want to see it as not wrong?
and these supposed countries - which ones and how would you know whether the incidence of incest has increased or not with legalisation - do you actually think someone is going around checking?
most people would just deny it anyway.
and these supposed countries - which ones and how would you know whether the incidence of incest has increased or not with legalisation - do you actually think someone is going around checking?
most people would just deny it anyway.
Zoe Doidge
Basically a Goddess
I think we've covered that by now in this thread.
You can check out here for a list of how various countries see incest legally. That article includes a map (blue/yellow means incest is legal, red means it's banned, grey presumably means they couldn't be bothered to check) which might be easier on the eyes.
And sure, we don't know how many people do it nor how it might change when it's legalized. We can only go by polls and such and that only works if people are being honest.
But the reality is legalization doesn't make it more available in the same way that alcohol is. It's available to anyone with a willing family member nearby, and anyone inclined to do it is just going to ignore the law and do it anyways.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
Frubals. In the end this is really all the argument that needs to be made on the issue.
rageoftyrael
Veritas
Okay, using instinct as some kind of moral indicator is ridiculous. That isn't what instincts are for, at all. They are their to keep us alive, not to form some kind of morality off of. Here are a couple of sights i went to where i asked the question, " is avoiding incest instinctual or social?" and from what i read, it doesn't seem like it is instinctual. Honestly, they seem to think it has more to do with the social, and very little at all to to do with biological reasons. And from what i've read, incest is a bit more common than we thought, so it may not even be as abnormal as we've been thinking....
Sociology: A Down-to-Earth Approach -- The Sociology of Human Sexuality
Incest taboo - eNotes.com Reference
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-3406900222.html
If these aren't good enough, look up the question yourself, cause i read a few more, and it seems to be commonly believed that it isn't biology stopping incest, as there are cultures where incest is commonly practiced.
oh, and quick thing, i hadn't responded to your cannibal thread, because i was either unaware of it, or couldn't be bothered on the day that i became aware of it. I will go in there and give you my opinion though....
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
the same as I asked Zoe though, which cultures are you referring to?
Incest no doubt usually occurs in very primitive areas due to lack of people, education etc..and even in these cases it is probably more cousins etc.. rather than siblings and parents/children.
McBell
Unbound
Regarding Russia, India, Japan, Belgium, France, Brazil, Portugal, Holland (Netherlands), Romania, Czech Republic, Hungary, Bulgaria, Israel; consensual Incestuous Families have for long, favored these countries as places to meet up with others who practice the same. Brazil, Spain, Holland, and France has become a popular destinations for those who practice incest to move to.
Source
Source
Not according to the above list...
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
My goodness, you just keep sinking, don;t you? Now you are reduced to spamming this thread with links to another thread. The only connection between the two is that both are things that most people aren't interested in taking part in.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Would you care to show us evidence that legalising a thing equates to increased use of that thing?
Because there was this thing called "prohibition", where they made alcohol illegal, and that didn't stop people using it at all... So it doesn't look like there's any great correlation between the two.
rageoftyrael
Veritas
Read a couple of my links, and you'll know. But as usual, you instantly ignored what i was trying to say, by fixating on a small detail that is actually pretty insignificant. Did you notice where i said incest was actually more common and prevalent than we thought? And that i was pointing out that it is generally not believed that incest has anything to do with instinct.
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
Hardly spam - it's all part of the same 'informed consent' argument.
anyway, good to see you back - where have you been the last few days?
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
I agree completely!
Instinct says 'hit that sweet thang' if it looks good.
Cultural conventions on the other hand says 'that is off limits no matter how sweet it is, even thinking of how sweet it is is wrong'.
Instinct says 'hit that sweet thang' if it looks good.
Cultural conventions on the other hand says 'that is off limits no matter how sweet it is, even thinking of how sweet it is is wrong'.
rageoftyrael
Veritas
Yeah, I think i'm gonna take my scientific cues from people who actually did the research, nnmartin. This is straying from the topic, but isn't it hilarious that even when you show someone evidence that their belief is wrong, they will just say they don't agree? Even when what you showed them has nothing to do with opinion, it really is a scientific factual kind of thing. I doubt you even have a very good understanding of what instinct really is, nnmartin. Why are you so certain that many people's disgust with incest is instinctual, even in the face of people who have actually done research that indicates otherwise?
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Informed consent? Is this an issue with incest? I mean (and I'm not talking about all forms of incest - obviously I am not including incest in which one party does not consent, or where one party is a child), but if both parties are grown adults, how is the ability to give consent even an issue? Either it is or it isn't given. If it is given, then this has nothing to do with why it is wrong. If consent was not given, then it is wrong because it is rape.
anyway, good to see you back - where have you been the last few days?
Working.
nnmartin
Well-Known Member
The relevance it that people seem to think cannibalism to be wrong because we would be eating our own species; so this has a similar truth to the issues of incest.
ie:
Cannibalism is wrong because it is the same species.
Incest is wrong because it is the same family.
The only thing different here is the order of magnitude, which shows that Incest is even worse than Cannibalism.
interesting to observe that some of those who support incest also support cannibalism (legalising it at least) - doesn't that strike you as a little odd?
How about you - do you think cannibalism should be allowed, with informed consent of course?
ie:
Cannibalism is wrong because it is the same species.
Incest is wrong because it is the same family.
The only thing different here is the order of magnitude, which shows that Incest is even worse than Cannibalism.
interesting to observe that some of those who support incest also support cannibalism (legalising it at least) - doesn't that strike you as a little odd?
How about you - do you think cannibalism should be allowed, with informed consent of course?
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Oh come on. You're stretching more here than ever.
By this logic, spanking a child is related to incest, because some people think spanking is wrong too!
You;ve never made a reasonable, objective argument about this, martin.
InformedIgnorance
Do you 'know' or believe?
The 'informed consent' argument relates to EVERYTHING that more than one party is effected by (i.e. any interaction)... buying a coffee, taking part in a sexual encounter, nullification of a legal arrangement pertaining to guardianship and so forth... If anything, the informed consent argument undermines your position, since it is the argument that anything is permitted if all parties directly affected by objective outcomes of the event/relationship etc give their informed consent to it... such an argument does not help your support your position to ban something regardless of whether or not the people involved give their informed consent.