Should NATO make ultimatum?

[amorphous_constellation]

There's no guarantee that comes with life's dangers, but the alternative can even be worse than any nuclear fate that awaits the world if people do essentially very little or nothing.

I think that the alternative may involve waiting, which I know isn't satisfying. But at points, the 'better' must display more patience than the 'worse.' Wait out the rage of the fool, and the world with assemble itself without him. Do not be goaded down into the mud with him

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think that the alternative may involve waiting, which I know isn't satisfying. But at points, the 'better' must display more patience than the 'worse.' Wait out the rage of the fool, and the world with assemble itself without him. Do not be goaded down into the mud with him

Putin is not a waiting kind of person. That mean if we wait, he's going to take what he wants and he wins.

 

[exchemist]

I think Putin is trying to goad NATO into war so he can lie to his people that Russian forces were attacked by NATO. This would reinforce the other lie he has used to justify his invasion of Ukraine: that NATO is a threat to Russia.

I must say I am starting to get that impression as well. But why would he want to goad NATO into WW3? How can he think that would end well for Russia?

 

[Kooky]

I must say I am starting to get that impression as well. But why would he want to goad NATO into WW3? How can he think that would end well for Russia?

Since you're very fond of comparing Putin to Hitler, here's a historical tidbit:

When he was forced to stay put in the Führerbunker, Hitler was theorizing that if the war was lost, then the fate for Germany would have to be total destruction. Even before that point, he was already handing out orders to his generals to destroy every German city that they could not hold against the Allied advance.

Hitler literally could not conceive of any outcome for war that wasn't either total victory, or the total, complete annihilation of his own country and his own people.

 

[Revoltingest]

I must say I am starting to get that impression as well. But why would he want to goad NATO into WW3? How can he think that would end well for Russia?

That seems a remote possibility. Instead, I think Putin
believes the west wants to avoid WW3. And he's taking
advantage of this by invading, destroying, & conquering
Ukraine without significant interference. Of course, this
interference turned out to be more significant than he
expected. Now there's an unexpectedly high cost to pay.

Putin reminds me of this....

 

[exchemist]

Since you're very fond of comparing Putin to Hitler, here's a historical tidbit:

When he was forced to stay put in the Führerbunker, Hitler was theorizing that if the war was lost, then the fate for Germany would have to be total destruction. Even before that point, he was already handing out orders to his generals to destroy every German city that they could not hold against the Allied advance.

Hitler literally could not conceive of any outcome for war that wasn't either total victory, or the total, complete annihilation of his own country and his own people.

Yes, this seeming death wish of Hitler, on behalf of his country, is something on which much has been written. And you are right, it is something that I have very much in mind these days, regarding the state of mind of Putin. It does not yet keep me awake at night, but I start to fear that if his conventional forces prove incompetent at achieving his objectives, he may be tempted to go nuclear. He may feel that his lack of concern for human life is one of his key strategic advantages.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Since you're very fond of comparing Putin to Hitler, here's a historical tidbit:

When he was forced to stay put in the Führerbunker, Hitler was theorizing that if the war was lost, then the fate for Germany would have to be total destruction. Even before that point, he was already handing out orders to his generals to destroy every German city that they could not hold against the Allied advance.

Hitler literally could not conceive of any outcome for war that wasn't either total victory, or the total, complete annihilation of his own country and his own people.

Makes me wonder about all the chatter out there that Putin is looking for a way out in which he will be able to save face? Just another ploy on his part? 'Look, I am the peace maker here. Ukraine won't concede anything so all the coming death an destruction is their fault.'