Should religion be tolerated?

[my opinion]

Because you prove yourselves ridiculous by googling plu, arguing the meaning of systemic, refusing to do your research, claiming to not be able to understand posts...I thought I would just join it the ridiculousness with you. Quick Storm...go look up ridiculousness.
You don't even want to to debate the topic at hand, you just want to run off at the mouth, wasting time, having nothing of substance to add. It just keeps on proving our point.
The topic at hand is 'should religion be tolerated'...I could tolerate the religion, it's just the people who follow it that are the problem.

we can be just as ridiculous as you lot

 

[McBell]

Because you prove yourselves ridiculous by googling plu, arguing the meaning of systemic, refusing to do your research, claiming to not be able to understand posts...I thought I would just join it the ridiculousness with you. Quick Storm...go look up ridiculousness.

Your intentional ignorance says even more than your words.

You don't even want to to debate the topic at hand, you just want to run off at the mouth, wasting time, having nothing of substance to add. It just keeps on proving our point.

You described your posts rather well.
Thanks for the confirmation.

The topic at hand is 'should religion be tolerated'...I could tolerate the religion, it's just the people who follow it that are the problem.

ANd here you claim the topic is one thing then make an off topic comment in the same post you complain about off topicness.

Have you met pot?

we can be just as ridiculous as you lot

I see that.
Interesting that you went to being ridiculous as fast as you did.

 

[my opinion]

I see that.
Interesting that you went to being ridiculous as fast as you did.

Just keeping up with the rest of them.

As one of the posters said a few posts back, they are leaving the debate because it's just ridiculous. Exasperating and frustrating your opponents to the point where they leave, when they are the only ones inputting intelligent comments, with your dancing around, side stepping issues, is a hollow victory.
Storm wasted no time in googling the word 'systemic' to prove a point, yet can't be bothered googling the stats on sex offending priests. Petty...Petty... Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see what they are doing...but if you want to kid yourself go ahead... There are plenty of religious people, Christians included, on these forums that contribute in a positive way...just not many of them in this thread

 

[McBell]

Just keeping up with the rest of them.

As one of the posters said a few posts back, they are leaving the debate because it's just ridiculous. Exasperating and frustrating your opponents to the point where they leave, when they are the only ones inputting intelligent comments, with your dancing around, side stepping issues, is a hollow victory.
Storm wasted no time in googling the word 'systemic' to prove a point, yet can't be bothered googling the stats on sex offending priests. Petty...Petty... Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can see what they are doing...but if you want to kid yourself go ahead... There are plenty of religious people, Christians included, on these forums that contribute in a positive way...just not many of them in this thread

Storm wasn't the one who brought up the stats on the sex offending priests.
Not only did she ask for the source used, So did I.
I will flat out tell you that I have not found a single thing that agrees with the numbers presented.
Of course, I cannot find anything that disagrees either.
So I have to wonder if the numbers were merely pulled out someones arse, ESPECIALLY when the one presenting the numbers refuses to present their source.
They got those numbers from somewhere.

And you have the gall to say Storm is being petty....

I swear, it is like RF has been invaded by 12-16 year olds.

 

[darkendless]

I can definitely tell someone they are wrong when they make broad sweeping generalizations with absolutely no evidence to back their claims up.

What reason do you have to claim that he's making generalisations? Maybe he live's near those churches that run around with signs saying "God Hates ****" or here in my corner of Australia where many church going folk are fairly narrow minded and hatefilled.

 

[McBell]

What reason do you have to claim that he's making generalisations? Maybe he live's near those churches that run around with signs saying "God Hates ****" or here in my corner of Australia where many church going folk are fairly narrow minded and hatefilled.

Maybe he is an expert at counting the hits and ignoring the misses.
I mean, he has been to hundreds of churches and has yet to find any 'good' theists.

 

[darkendless]

Maybe he is an expert at counting the hits and ignoring the misses.
I mean, he has been to hundreds of churches and has yet to find any 'good' theists.

Perhaps. I used to live in a small town, being part of the church made people elite in social standings. It was as though whoever kissed the *** of the leading priest the most by throwing round their biggotry got to be the priests lap dog for a week.

Maybe our dear friend needs to talk to some theist about normal things and see that religious folk are human afterall?

 

[DarkMaster24]

I have never heard that figure until this thread. If it's so universally known, what's the problem providing a source? Don't tell me to do your legwork for you.


This displays a deep ignorance of what repentance is about.


BS. Unlike you, I posted my source, which clearly defined your usage as a biological term, after giving my definition.


I'm not arguing against that. But that doesn't make the abuse itself systemic, as was originally claimed.


My point just went sailing right over your head didn't it? I posted that obvious falsehood to illustrate that you can claim anything, and it means nothing without a credible source.


Why is it that you harp on the notoriety of the Church when the vast majority of such abuse is perpetrated by a family member. Are fathers notorious for molesting their children? It happens more often. (And no, I don't have any sources handy, but if you like I'll go find some.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm as horrified as the next person - probably more than most, in fact - by the actions of those few priests. However, I regard them as the aberrations they are, rather than trying to condemn the entire institution.

Why don't you just google it; not that hard, especially concidering I found a source among the first few hits.

Repentance is feeling genuine regret for doing something wrong and to stop doing it. I understand more of that faith than you give me credit for.

Funny, since the dicitonary I gave, a non-subjective source, gives the definition I gave, in a nonbiological sence.

It may not, but it still means the church should do more to prevent that from happening. The church hasn't done as much as it should to prevent this sexual abuse from continuing and as myopinion said, they've done much to keep it in secret, so as to avoid the church being seen in a negative, but true light.

No, I understood it perfectly fine, I was just correcting your flawed comparison.

Because allthough father's may be doing it to their children. there is no excuse for preists to be doing such things to children in an environment that is supposed to be loving. I find it abhorrent that this kind of thng is happening in church.

Again, the church is at fault for not doing as much as it should when it does happen. Heh, even when it does the church does its best to hide it from being exposed to the public.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Touche! My friend Touche!

Hehe, cheers, man.

 

[DarkMaster24]

What reason do you have to claim that he's making generalisations? Maybe he live's near those churches that run around with signs saying "God Hates ****" or here in my corner of Australia where many church going folk are fairly narrow minded and hatefilled.

Exactly, and thank you that is what I mean. I've personally seen many of those churches and that is just among the reasons I disdain religion. Alot of religious people ar elike that-weather the people here accept that general fact or not. I'm glad to see another rational person in this thread.

 

[my opinion]

Storm wasn't the one who brought up the stats on the sex offending priests.
Not only did she ask for the source used, So did I.
I will flat out tell you that I have not found a single thing that agrees with the numbers presented.
Of course, I cannot find anything that disagrees either.
So I have to wonder if the numbers were merely pulled out someones arse, ESPECIALLY when the one presenting the numbers refuses to present their source.
They got those numbers from somewhere.

And you have the gall to say Storm is being petty....

I swear, it is like RF has been invaded by 12-16 year olds.

Well, all I can say is I googled a general term, without going directly to my own source..and volia!...there are plenty of sources for you to peruse...and if you were seriously about this debate and the matters discussed you would be making an effort to find out...clearly you are not.
You belittle yourself with your games... you look like a real dick insisting their are no resources to examine...when there are plenty.

 

[DarkMaster24]

Maybe he is an expert at counting the hits and ignoring the misses.
I mean, he has been to hundreds of churches and has yet to find any 'good' theists.

That may seem hard to believe but it's the truth. Among all the churches I've only met less than a handful that I'd ever even concider being friends with. In my experience, religious people are full of hate and have unjustified veiws on issues.

 

[McBell]

Well, all I can say is I googled a general term, without going directly to my own source..and volia!...there are plenty of sources for you to peruse...and if you were seriously about this debate and the matters discussed you would be making an effort to find out...clearly you are not.
You belittle yourself with your games... you look like a real dick insisting their are no resources to examine...when there are plenty.

And yet you cannot even present one....

 

[McBell]

That may seem hard to believe but it's the truth. Among all the churches I've only met less than a handful that I'd ever even concider being friends with. In my experience, religious people are full of hate and have unjustified veiws on issues.

And here is another problem I have with you.
You are constantly moving the goal posts.

 

[ChristineES]

There can be no doubt that some priests molested children, you say 6-12%. That means that 88-94% did not molest children. But why judge all of Christianity by some priests? Not all Christians are Catholic (I'm a protestant myself). Not all theists are Christians. There are plenty of other faiths.
The point remains that (and I am sorry I keep repeating myself)some Christians can be very judgmental- I have known some myself (and they irritated me), some have tunnel vision (I have know those, too), some can be pretty cruel to non-believers (I have seen it). Not all Christians are like that- some love everyone, like they are supposed, do not judge, and are kind hearted (I have known a lot of those, too).
One last note- I am very dismayed when Christians are not kind- because it gives the rest of us a bad name, too. And it is a part of Jesus teaching to be kind- not just to believers, but to everyone. And so many of those kinds of people have lost people and made people hate all of us. I have more compassion for a person, like Darkmaster24 (I hope I am not making you uncomfortable singling you out, I am sorry if I do), who has been hurt by people who supposed to be Christians, than I do from the ones that hurt him (or her).

 

[McBell]

There can be no doubt that some priests molested children, you say 6-12%. That means that 88-94% did not molest children. But why judge all of Christianity by some priests? Not all Christians are Catholic (I'm a protestant myself). Not all theists are Christians. There are plenty of other faiths.
The point remains that (and I am sorry I keep repeating myself)some Christians can be very judgmental- I have known some myself (and they irritated me), some have tunnel vision (I have know those, too), some can be pretty cruel to non-believers (I have seen it). Not all Christians are like that- some love everyone, like they are supposed, do not judge, and are kind hearted (I have known a lot of those, too).
One last note- I am very dismayed when Christians are not kind- because it gives the rest of us a bad name, too. And it is a part of Jesus teaching to be kind- not just to believers, but to everyone. And so many of those kinds of people have lost people and made people hate all of us. I have more compassion for a person, like Darkmaster24 (I hope I am not making you uncomfortable singling you out, I am sorry if I do), who has been hurt by people who supposed to be Christians, than I do from the ones that hurt him (or her).

I cannot figure out how 6-12% can be declared as most.

 

[my opinion]

This argument would be more about you and your fantasy of trying to search for info but coming up empty handed, than me running around sourcing information for people that are serious about the debate in the first place.
See, making the effort to find the info is signalling your intention and effort...you make no effort...you send no signal...you are just looking to argue/debate for the sake of it.

Are you so wrapped up and self absorbed that you cannot even see your actions for what they are?

 

[DarkMaster24]

And here is another problem I have with you.
You are constantly moving the goal posts.

What do you mean by saying "moving the goal posts"? Explain.

 

[ChristineES]

I cannot figure out how 6-12% can be declared as most.

Well, I really don't know how many. Then there are those who were never caught. I heard it was 10% a few years back when I did an English paper on the subject of priests who abuse children. We probably don't know the exact figure. It is appalling that people you are supposed to able to trust harm children.

 

[DarkMaster24]

There can be no doubt that some priests molested children, you say 6-12%. That means that 88-94% did not molest children. But why judge all of Christianity by some priests? Not all Christians are Catholic (I'm a protestant myself). Not all theists are Christians. There are plenty of other faiths.
The point remains that (and I am sorry I keep repeating myself)some Christians can be very judgmental- I have known some myself (and they irritated me), some have tunnel vision (I have know those, too), some can be pretty cruel to non-believers (I have seen it). Not all Christians are like that- some love everyone, like they are supposed, do not judge, and are kind hearted (I have known a lot of those, too).
One last note- I am very dismayed when Christians are not kind- because it gives the rest of us a bad name, too. And it is a part of Jesus teaching to be kind- not just to believers, but to everyone. And so many of those kinds of people have lost people and made people hate all of us. I have more compassion for a person, like Darkmaster24 (I hope I am not making you uncomfortable singling you out, I am sorry if I do), who has been hurt by people who supposed to be Christians, than I do from the ones that hurt him (or her).

Thanks Christian. See? ChristineES is the kind of Chrisitan I'd like to see more of..she's not hateful or prejudicied and she's an intelligent person to boot. If more Christians were like her, I would be more open-minded to learning about Christianity. She's an exemplary example of what Christians should be like.

Indeed, yeah, I was a protestant myself when I was a Christian. I prefer it over Catholic any day.

Hehe, glad to know you dismay those people too, ChristineES. They really get on my nerves and it's good you're not like that-I don't think I'd like you if you were, haha.

You seem to be, in my eyes, one of the few Christians that are like the kind you jst discribed ChristineES. I admire that.