Should Sharia Law be forbidden in Non-Muslim (Western) countries?

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Continuing with your example of smoking, is smoking not a right of the individual? If we stop people from having the right to smoke, where does this slippery slope stop?

No, not really. Smoking isn't a legally protected right in any country as far as I'm aware; it's just a habit that typically isn't outlawed except in public indoors areas of the UK and I think in cars as well.

Can we ethically stop people from practicing their faith?

Yes, in certain circumstances which I'll explain in the next paragraph.

Isn't that a right that is afforded to all people, no matter where or what faith?

Only as long as the exercise of their right to religious freedom doesn't infringe on other peoples' rights. That's why equality legislation & human rights laws exist; to strike a balance. Otherwise religious freedom would be a trump card to subvert the law like it is in America. For instance, we in the UK don't allow business owners to discriminate in who they offer their services to. An example would be a B&B proprietor preventing a couple from ordering a double-bed room - and thus preventing them from sleeping together because the proprietor's Christian belief that sex outside of marriage is sinful.

I agree that extremists need to be stopped and taken out of the equation but how do you propose to do that? How do you pick those who you think are dangerous and those who are
not, if and unless they openly admit to radicalism?

I don't know. I suspect any such venture would necessarily involve massive State intrusion on our privacy which I don't think is a price worth paying. One or two European nations are talking about repatriating disillusioned Islamic State fighters and they're obviously going to watch them all like hawks.

 

[Perditus]

The idea that Muslims are going to "take over" Europe is conspiracy crap and fear of the Other.

I'm sorry @Saint Frankenstein, you haven't been paying attention to the foreign press. All over Europe, Muslims are calling for Europeans to leave Europe. They have openly stated they want to take over Europe and obliterate European values and culture.

 

[Shad]

Some countries - Germany, the UK, Canada and perhaps some of the Scandinavian countries are in the peculiar situation of having nominal links between the political system and specific religions despite being actually very secularistic in thought.

The UK is not one of these as it even allows Sharia among other religions in the court system.

Conversely, most Muslim countries are so lost in doctrine that their understanding of "secularism" includes Presidents such as Sadam Hussein and the Assads that make a point of claiming to follow Islam and behave in ways that would elsewhere make them be perceived (correctly) as acolytes.

Syria has Sharia within it's legal system. Sadam's Iraq had Sharia too. Uncomfortable facts are always explained away with BS.

We must make an effort to see beyond nominal claims.

There is no reason to attempt to see beyond BS other than why the BS is used as an excuse.

 

[Rival]

I agree totally but I also strongly disagree with you and Luis on this argument. Islam is where Christianity was 200 to 300 years ago. Pagans were routinely murdered. And let's not forget the Crusades where Christianity tried to eliminate Muslims back then. I would say that 90% of the Muslims I know are peace loving people who merely wish to practice their faith in peace. Why do you find that unpalatable?

You do realise that the Crusades were a long overdue response to Islamic aggression, yes?

 

[LuisDantas]

You do realize that the Crusades were a long overdue response to Islamic aggression, yes?

Many Muslims will flat out doubt that. The narrative is much too powerful for them.

Worse still, their environments tend to not only lack the means for questioning, but to actively pursue their destruction.

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm sorry @Saint Frankenstein, you haven't been paying attention to the foreign press. All over Europe, Muslims are calling for Europeans to leave Europe. They have openly stated they want to take over Europe and obliterate European values and culture.

Can you point me towards some specifics? What you say sure seems to be in line with what I would expect, but I didn't think it was quite so overt.

 

[Perditus]

Can you point me towards some specifics? What you say sure seems to be in line with what I would expect, but I didn't think it was quite so overt.

The most recent statement came out of Germany. A Muslim told a reporter "we don't like you (Germans). When are you going to leave?"

They have an appalling sense of arrogant entitlement to a country and a continent that isn't even theirs.

They lack a fundamental understanding of the fact that if they run the native Europeans off the continent there will be no one left to pay the taxes that provide their free social benefits.

They are parasites. I watched a video last week that showed all the garbage they left behind along several blocks of a Paris street. Disgusting and disrespectful.

Their "values" are not compatible with those of the West. They should be sent back to their own countries where that kind of behavior is the norm.

 

[LuisDantas]

I feared as much. Alas, I don't have much to go on to doubt you.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The most recent statement came out of Germany. A Muslim told a reporter "we don't like you (Germans). When are you going to leave?"

Okay, that's one instance in Germany. While you're at it, do you have a link? I need to see this for myself before I'll believe it. Oh and do you have any others? You did say "all over Europe" after all.

 

[Perditus]

I am all over the internet every day. I don't keep track of articles or web sites where I read these things.

All I can tell you is that I read the foreign press - UK, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Asia.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific than that. I just don't remember.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I am all over the internet every day. I don't keep track of articles or web sites where I read these things.

All I can tell you is that I read the foreign press - UK, Germany, the Scandinavian countries, Asia.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific than that. I just don't remember.

Well could you go back through your browser history and look or, I dunno, Google a keyword search?

 

[Notanumber]

Closest I could find with a quick Google.

http://www.theamericanmirror.com/it-begins-muslim-petitions-munich-to-end-anti-islamic-oktoberfest/

Hope it helps.

 

[Perditus]

Well could you go back through your browser history and look or, I dunno, Google a keyword search?

I clear everything daily. I tried a Bing search. Nothing but domestic results, which is useless.

 

[Akivah]

I'm sorry if this is a bad surprise
Not only non orthodox Jews are not considered Jews but non orthodox Rabbis as well
http://www.haaretz.com/st/c/prod/eng/2015/08/not-jewish-enough/

It's not a surprise. But you seem to have missed a key point.

Quote from the linked article:
Whatever the case may be, they all consider themselves Jewish. But to pass muster with those who rule on such matters in Israel

This whole article is only about the laws in Israel. I don't live in Israel, so whatever they chose to legislate has no effect on me. I don't recognize their authority on me for anything. I know that many Muslim countries have the same sort of laws regarding differing Muslim denominations and not considering certain Muslims to be Muslims.

 

[Akivah]

Sharia is basically the Islamic equivalent of Talmudic law and Catholic canon law. Those aren't banned, so there's no reason to single out the Islamic one.

A big difference is that Jewish law does not take precedence over the law of the land. And our laws only apply to Jews, not to anyone else.

 

[Shad]

A big difference is that Jewish law does not take precedence over the law of the land. And our laws only apply to Jews, not to anyone else.

In this context Sharia only applies to Muslims. However by having Jewish law, link Sharia, as part of the legal system of a secular nation you are in fact placing your laws above the laws of the land. You want your own laws not the laws that apply to everyone. This is called special privilege.

 

[Kirran]

I'm sorry @Saint Frankenstein, you haven't been paying attention to the foreign press. All over Europe, Muslims are calling for Europeans to leave Europe. They have openly stated they want to take over Europe and obliterate European values and culture.

So I am from Europe. I have never met or heard of a Muslim in Europe saying this. Let alone the idea that Muslims all over Europe are calling for Europeans to leave. Most Muslims in Europe are European, anyway.

 

[Limo]

It's not a surprise. But you seem to have missed a key point.


This whole article is only about the laws in Israel. I don't live in Israel, so whatever they chose to legislate has no effect on me. I don't recognize their authority on me for anything. I know that many Muslim countries have the same sort of laws regarding differing Muslim denominations and not considering certain Muslims to be Muslims.

It's what I'm saying
Someone will call you not a true believer or you're not believer any more even if your parents are from the same belief

All religions are suffering from the same even the ideologies, Judaism is not an exception

 

[viole]

Yes I mean the ban of minarets
The discussion point was not exactly the banning of the minarates, I used an example for majority to decide something.
Some people here believe that even if majority in Islamic country decided to apply Sharia, the western people shouldn't let them do that
So voting and democracy are not for muslims
This is an example of paranoia, double standards

Well, if you were Swiss you would have all the rights in the world to call for a vote on introducing Sharia in Switzerland, if you follow the same requirements like any other Swiss.

And last time I checked democracy is indeed decision power from the majority. And if Iany country has democracy, and wants to introduce Sharia in their country, then I have nothing really against that. I am the opinion that every democracy deserves their leaders and way of life.

In the same way, if western countries decide democratically that minarets should be banned (in their country) and Sharia should be strictly forbidden (in their country), would you have a problem with that?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Limo]

Well, if you were Swiss you would have all the rights in the world to call for a vote on introducing Sharia in Switzerland, if you follow the same requirements like any other Swiss.

And last time I checked democracy is indeed decision power from the majority. And if Iany country has democracy, and wants to introduce Sharia in their country, then I have nothing really against that. I am the opinion that every democracy deserves their leaders and way of life.

In the same way, if western countries decide democratically that minarets should be banned (in their country) and Sharia should be strictly forbidden (in their country), would you have a problem with that?

Ciao

- viole

No problem at all
The problem is in the heads of many western people and western governments
They believe that Islamic countries are not the same intelligence and they shouldn't apply Sharia even if 100% voters accepted it
Theyre spending money, supporting tyrants, starting wars to stop it