Should some atheists take the time to study religion/rituals/magic ect.?

[Theweirdtophat]

I've had my heart stop twice, yes.
That is what many call death, but people are really dead when their brain stops functioning.
There is no coming back from that.

At the times I didn't have an emotional connection to anyone, as it was before I found my girlfriend.
So I didn't see anyone, I didn't see anything. I just woke back up.

I assure you that you more than likely know no such thing.
You probably think you know, and are having a misconception.

I could say the same thing and say you are having a misconception. And there is a difference between mostly dead and all dead. And it may depend on how long your heart was stopped. If it stopped for sat 2 seconds, one may not have time to see such experiences as opposed to having their heart stopped for 20-30 seconds or more. Who knows as to why people have experiences why others like you, haven't. I know there is energy that animates us. Much like electricity that powers machinery. The energy goes somewhere. As I said, I know souls are real, and your opinion won't change that.

LOL

NO YOU DONT

You have faith and nothing more. At this time souls FACTUALLY do not exist scientifically outside mythology.

This is why I don't take your messages seriously...

If I told you that I saw aliens and you say "lolz no u didn't" does that mean I didn't see aliens? Of course not. I can't prove it, but that doesn't mean it wasn't there. The greatest scientists of the past knew the presence of a soul. Why can't you? I know souls exist and your opinion won't change it.

 

[Deathbydefault]

I could say the same thing and say you are having a misconception. And there is a difference between mostly dead and all dead. And it may depend on how long your heart was stopped. If it stopped for sat 2 seconds, one may not have time to see such experiences as opposed to having their heart stopped for 20-30 seconds or more. Who knows as to why people have experiences why others like you, haven't. I know there is energy that animates us. Much like electricity that powers machinery. The energy goes somewhere. As I said, I know souls are real, and your opinion won't change that.

My heart was out for around 15 seconds the first time, almost 40 seconds the second time.
Your heart being stopped is only halfway to real death.
When you brain stops you are dead. Permanently.

Science touches on this I believe. I'll try to find the paper I read on this subject.
Basically when you are dying your brain puts you in a dream-like state, so that it may repair you.
That might explain these "experiences".

I agree the energy does go somewhere. Matter cannot be created nor destroyed.
That being said, the thing you call a soul has no form in matter, would've known already otherwise.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I honestly think you didnt read my post. I also feel you are talking go me as if I am a theist. I am not. Also, there is nothing more to energy. The point of most religions is that the religious are thankful for being alive and living. That is the bare bones: gratitude. Do you mean to say you are not thankful for living?

It doesn't need to be religious, philosophical, or spiritual. We don't even need to use the terms soul, spirit, gods, goddess, and so forth.

Spirituality and religion does not need to be about these things. I think a lot of "evidence focused" atheist are puting religion in a box. Not all religions see their history and mythology literally as I notice many christians do. Generalozation is one of the worlds most greatest evils.

We are mayde up of energy, how can one deny that? That energy keeps our hearts, bodies, and so forth going, how is that not worth seeing more into it than just nothing but cells and atoms? Religion is gratitude for living. It's placing respect and gratitude for the Energy (no matter the name or stories describing it) that keeps us going. It's being thankful for life.

How can that be fantasy and imagination?

How is being thankful for living fantasy and imagination?

Your post seemed to address something completely different or to a theist.

Sometimes I think other atheist are caught up in religious terms, supernatural, and the like

I think this is why some atheist are evidence-proned. Not all religions are like that. We still see the spiritual nature aka the energy that keeps us living in every living and all nature, for some of us. Why dont atheist see that...especially in the examples I gave..I do not know.

The difference between me and you, may be that I don't keep making ancient mens mistakes, by attributing things to gaps in my knowledge or mythology.

If I believed in mythology and set it to my life, we would have a good debate. Since I dont and never implied that in my post, where did you get this from and who are you speaking to?

 

[outhouse]

The greatest scientists of the past knew the presence of a soul.

False and you stated it factually in error to the point many would question honesty.

The proper statement is some scientist in the past when mythology was believed in place of knowledge, believed in a soul. NOT KNEW.

Why can't you? I know souls exist and your opinion won't change it.

Im sorry I don't believe in mythology like ancient men.

You believe, you factually don't know. Big difference.

 

[Quintessence]

You believe, you factually don't know. Big difference.

No offense, outhouse, but you really are not in any position to say what does and does not go on in someone else's head. Your projecting your opinion of the situation onto what he's saying, and that's not fair to him. That you think this guy "believes" rather than "knows" is as much of a belief as what you are pointing out.

 

[Milton Platt]

That's just part of it...not all of it. You get a better frame of reference if you are actually part of it because you can see WHY people believe in it. People like to think that all of this was made up for no reason other than for laughs or for control. It became a tool to use to control others but that's not how it started. How do you explain people having visions, near death experience visions, seeing things through meditation ect, what about places where spirits have dwelled in like haunted houses. If there wasn't a sliver of truth in it, you wouldn't hear so much about it if it was all fake. You wouldn't believe at first UNITL you actually attempted to do it yourself. That's why I said you need to experience it, rather than complain and say there is no proof. Take it from someone who used to be an atheist as I think I have some sort of frame of reference. So no. I have done my home work.

Well, you have done your homework very poorly then
You hear about the things you listed because people like a good story. You have to remember as well that the "news" isn't about reporting what is true. It is about entertainment value in order to attract an audience thay can place advertising in front of.
There are reasonable explanations for all of the things you have listed........where have you been looking that (1) you cannot find any reasonable explanations for any of this and (2) you have discovered scientific evidence that they are of a supernatural nature?
You have no credible evidence that the supernatural exists and so just want to make stuff up to fill the knowledge gap.

 

[outhouse]

No offense, outhouse, but you really are not in any position to say what does and does not go on in someone else's head.

When someone states something neither academic or scientific, but rather mythological, I can state he believes and that he does not know.

So it comes to the question of can someone have knowledge, is something that does not exist and is ONLY personal perception.

. Your projecting your opinion of the situation onto what he's saying, and that's not fair to him

What is not fair is when people makes statements of certainty with no evidence at all.

The burden of proof lies on him, and he continually dodges this with nothing but poor excuses.

That you think this guy "believes" rather than "knows" is as much of a belief as what you are pointing out.

To state knowledge requires knowledge, not belief. Knowledge is generally true. Some want to define it as true belief, so my claiming belief is factually correct. BUT TRUE HAS NOT BEEN DETERMINED.


But lets not drag this into the philosophical where anyone cam say or mean anything with no value. CONTEXT here is the man said he knows, and until he can prove something he knowns nothing.


I witnessed a purple bigfoot with yellow polka dots, so I know they are real! is exactly the same context he is using. I'm sorry but its not a credible statement.


Perceived knowledge is FACTUALLY not necessarily knowledge

 

[outhouse]

No offense, outhouse, but you really are not in any position to say what does and does not go on in someone else's head.

None taken.

Its not about what he perceives or thinks. The human mind is weak and can imagine anything.

Its about what he claims. Perceived knowledge is FACTUALLY not necessarily knowledge.



My statement is against his claim of knowledge which is factually unsubstantiated.

 

[atanu]

I have experienced it...but facing reality, no matter how tough at times it is...without a fantasy...is far better. Because it's real. Conjuring up gods in my head so I can get through a tough day or feel better about life, shouldn't be something anyone suggests for others to do.

Then possibly you did not experience the reality. You experienced something like dream that comes and goes.

 

[Curious George]

If atheists did participate such things and looked this stuff up and actually try it, there probably would be no such thing as an "atheist."

Some people will become atheist to spite their parents if their parents were overly religious and strict. Others were always like that, Maybe you as an atheist, should listen to one who was an atheist and think "Hmm maybe there's a reason he's saying this"

If I didn't think it was true, I wouldn't have posted this. Also people use "straw man" so many times here, it's starting to lose it's real meaning.

Bwaaahaaahhahhahhh

Okay, is this meant as entertainment? I am trying to figure out what is funnier "the mad at god atheist trope" or the "mad at their parents" one.

Do you have an opinion on this matter?