Should the Bible be taken as 100% true?

[Storm]

I tend to think that people are pretty much the same as they always were. I expect there were always a fair number of dirty liars and unquestioning fools.

I read a paper a while back that talked about how people are losing their ability to think symbolically. I'll see if I can dig it up. No promises, though, as I can't even remember the title.

ETA: For now, I'll leave you with a personal favorite, Biblical Literalism: Constricting the Cosmic Dance.

 

[AxisMundi]

I'm split on that. The problem I believe is that readers of the Bible are not taught enough to form knowledgeable opinions on what should be taken literally and what shouldn't be. The cause of this problem, from what I see, is that many individuals are brought up learning that the Bible is perfect, without flaw. They are not given additional information to actually be knowledgeable enough to discern what the Bible was intended to state. Basically, the problem is ignorance.

Now, in certain case, I can see how the Bible is completely wrong, or at least very outdated (for instance, many of the law can not be judged by today's standards, as it was a very different time. However, they should not be taken literally for today's audience. They are simply outdated).

At the same time though, I believe a lot of what was meant to be metaphors, or not taken literally have been misconstrued. Since Christians claim it all to be literal, then it is only logical for the critics to show how the Bible is wrong over and over again. So the problem does originate simply from ignorance.

Leaving all of that aside, if one were to look at the Bible in a more logical fashion, it can be discern what is meant to be literal and what is not.

Ignorance is certainly a problem, and a widespread one at that.

However, one can glean positive teachings from any book, even LaVeh's.

What I think a lot of people miss in this discussion is that the myths contained within the bible are intended to give Jehovah the ultimate authority of a creator deity, and through him the religion and the religion's clergy, all reinforced with severe punishments should the adherent not follow the proscribed laws exactly and with built in growth devises to increase the power base of said religion.

What, really, does the bible have to offer that would improve society any more than what was already present in the ME, or around the globe for that matter?

 

[Mr Cheese]

You missed my point completely. They didn't know about evolution or the Big Bang, sure, but they knew damned well that snakes don't talk.

It's not, imo that they were ignorant enough to believe such stories were factual history. It's that we're (generally speaking) ignorant enough to THINK they did.

Historically, the bible literalism movement (as seen in its modern permutation)is only a few centuries old...

 

[LittleNipper]

1. Isaiah 40:22, refers to the earth as a circle. A circle is a 2 dimensional figure, it is flat. O <- A circle (depending on which font you use, but you get the point). Other passages speak of people traveling to the tops of mountains to see "all of creation". One cannot do this standing on a globe.

2. Joshua 10:12-13, Psalsm 104:5, 1 Chronicles 16:30 should get your brain working on which passages claim the earth stands still and the universe revolves around us.

3. Said age is arrived at by counting generations listed in the bible from Adam and Eve forward. When this is done, the age of the Earth from the supposed creation is app. 6,000 years old.

4. Sorry, no, there isn't enough water on, or in, the planet to compeltely inundate the surface. There is no "Waterworld" movie type scenario possible. Even should both polar caps melt completely, we would only loose a few hundred miles of coastline land.

And please, not the foolish apologetic "known world" crap.

The highest land elevation in Syria, for example, is some 2,814 meters above sea level. Richmond, VA sits at some 170 FEET above sea level.

There is also the compelete and utter lack of any archeological evidence for any widespread flood.

Also, using the same timeline as above, ie counting generations in the bible, we see that said flood would've occured at app. 2200 BCE. Considering that we have writtings from cultures "in the known world" much older than this, feel free to explain why there are no 370 day gaps in those records, or why no one mentions anything about even having a period of damp let alone being flooded out.

And please, don't get me started on the laughability of the whole Noah and Ark myth either.

Satan took JESUS to a mountain top and showed HIM the world. Okay, so that doesn't mean that JESUS wasn't shown visions of all the areas of the world by satan on that mountain.
A study of Genesis seems to bring one to the conclusion that the surface of the earth was once rather flat with perhaps high hills. It wasn't until after the FLOOD that mountains are mentioned. SO, the logic is that significant surface shifts likely happened during and for many centuries after the FLOOD. There are ancient FLOOD stories throughout the world. One just needs to search them out.

There is the indication that the FLOOD may have happened about 5000 years ago. "Modern" culture seems to have its start about 4000 years ago.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Satan took JESUS to a mountain top and showed HIM the world. Okay, so that doesn't mean that JESUS wasn't shown visions of all the areas of the world by satan on that mountain.
A study of Genesis seems to bring one to the conclusion that the surface of the earth was once rather flat with perhaps high hills. It wasn't until after the FLOOD that mountains are mentioned. SO, the logic is that significant surface shifts likely happened during and for many centuries after the FLOOD. There are ancient FLOOD stories throughout the world. One just needs to search them out.

There is the indication that the FLOOD may have happened about 5000 years ago. "Modern" culture seems to have its start about 4000 years ago.

and women turn into pillars of salt all the time

ditto men are swallowed by fish

not to mention the biblical dinosaur..

 

[fallingblood]

Ignorance is certainly a problem, and a widespread one at that.

However, one can glean positive teachings from any book, even LaVeh's.

What I think a lot of people miss in this discussion is that the myths contained within the bible are intended to give Jehovah the ultimate authority of a creator deity, and through him the religion and the religion's clergy, all reinforced with severe punishments should the adherent not follow the proscribed laws exactly and with built in growth devises to increase the power base of said religion.

What, really, does the bible have to offer that would improve society any more than what was already present in the ME, or around the globe for that matter?

I agree with you. I can't see much that it can really add to make things better. If taken more as literature, instead of a guide for ones life, I believe it would be more beneficial primarily in order to see how the religion of Judaism and Christianity some what evolved (I say somewhat because I don't believe any credible scholar can rely solely on them). Other than some history, I don't think it can offer much more.

 

[LittleNipper]

and women turn into pillars of salt all the time

ditto men are swallowed by fish

not to mention the biblical dinosaur..

Only one man was swallowed and carried for 3 days. Read JOB Chapters 40 & 41. Sounds like dinosaurs to me...

As for Lot's wife"This remarkable happening is stated matter-of-factly, with no suggestion that it was a special miracle or divine judgment. Lot’s wife "looked back" (the phrase might even be rendered "returned back" or "lagged back") seeking to cling to her luxurious life in Sodom (note Christ’s reference to this in Luke 17:32,33) and was destroyed in the "overthrow" (Genesis 19:25,29) of the city. There are many great deposits of rock salt in the region, probably formed by massive precipitation from thermal brines upwelling from the earth’s deep mantle during the great Flood. Possibly the overthrow buried her in a shower of these salt deposits blown skyward by the explosions. There is also the possibility that she was buried in a shower of volcanic ash, with her body gradually being converted into "salt" over the years following through the process of petrifaction, in a manner similar to that experienced by the inhabitants of Pompeii and Herculaneum in the famous eruption of Mount Vesuvius.

 

[fallingblood]

Satan took JESUS to a mountain top and showed HIM the world. Okay, so that doesn't mean that JESUS wasn't shown visions of all the areas of the world by satan on that mountain.
A study of Genesis seems to bring one to the conclusion that the surface of the earth was once rather flat with perhaps high hills. It wasn't until after the FLOOD that mountains are mentioned. SO, the logic is that significant surface shifts likely happened during and for many centuries after the FLOOD. There are ancient FLOOD stories throughout the world. One just needs to search them out.

There is the indication that the FLOOD may have happened about 5000 years ago. "Modern" culture seems to have its start about 4000 years ago.

There is a lot of assumption there that flies in the face of what we know about history. There are ancient flood stories; however, would you believe them all? I highly doubt you would because most of them are highly different than the Biblical flood story.

Even more so though, a full world flood is not possible. First, there is not enough water. Some claim it came from a comet, but a comet that size would have destroyed life as we know it. Some say that it came from geysers, but the gas they also let out would have poisoned the world. Also, even having that amount of water inside the earth would have basically caused the Earth to be nothing more than quicksand. Basically, all of the possible explanations would have, if one were to use logic, destroyed life on Earth.

Even ignoring those points (as they really are the weakest ones), there is no geographical evidence for a world wide flood. With a flood of that size, there would be no doubt that it would have left a mark all over the world. However, it did not. There is no shred of evidence for a world wide flood.

Logically, one has to assume that such a flood never happened. Instead, it would be more likely that the flood that is being referenced was a local flood. The story, as many stories were, simply exaggerated.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

You should take the bible as literal and true as you need it to be.

Too bad that doesn't work for speed limits.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

"Is anything in this existence 100% correct?"

Why, yes, moi!

 

[sandy whitelinger]

lol,,,,,

for once Jayhawker, your curmudgeon like attitude is oh so correct on this issue...

Curmudgen "like?":biglaugh:

 

[fallingblood]

Only one man was swallowed and carried for 3 days. Read JOB Chapters 40 & 41. Sounds like dinosaurs to me...

First, we know that by the time the Bible was written, Dinosaurs were extinct. There is no debate on this (at least credible debate).

So logic and reason have to be trusted. First, all that we are given was a description. There is just as much evidence to assume that it was not a dinosaur being described, as it was an elephant. Actually, the latter is much more logical. Looking more closely at the actual Hebrew used, the latter becomes even more logical.

 

[LittleNipper]

There is a lot of assumption there that flies in the face of what we know about history. There are ancient flood stories; however, would you believe them all? I highly doubt you would because most of them are highly different than the Biblical flood story.

Even more so though, a full world flood is not possible. First, there is not enough water. Some claim it came from a comet, but a comet that size would have destroyed life as we know it. Some say that it came from geysers, but the gas they also let out would have poisoned the world. Also, even having that amount of water inside the earth would have basically caused the Earth to be nothing more than quicksand. Basically, all of the possible explanations would have, if one were to use logic, destroyed life on Earth.

Even ignoring those points (as they really are the weakest ones), there is no geographical evidence for a world wide flood. With a flood of that size, there would be no doubt that it would have left a mark all over the world. However, it did not. There is no shred of evidence for a world wide flood.

Logically, one has to assume that such a flood never happened. Instead, it would be more likely that the flood that is being referenced was a local flood. The story, as many stories were, simply exaggerated.

I would believe that other FLOOD tales originated from the TRUTH.

 

[fallingblood]

I would believe that other FLOOD tales originated from the TRUTH.

So basically, you will ignore what they are saying and assume that they imply what you want them to?

 

[Mr Cheese]

I would believe that other FLOOD tales originated from the TRUTH.

what about men swallowed by fish?

 

[logician]

"Should the Bible be taken as 100% true? "

Mpst of the bible is fiction, certainly the gospels are accounts of a fictional man-god that could do miracles.

 

[AxisMundi]

Satan took JESUS to a mountain top and showed HIM the world. Okay, so that doesn't mean that JESUS wasn't shown visions of all the areas of the world by satan on that mountain.
A study of Genesis seems to bring one to the conclusion that the surface of the earth was once rather flat with perhaps high hills. It wasn't until after the FLOOD that mountains are mentioned. SO, the logic is that significant surface shifts likely happened during and for many centuries after the FLOOD. There are ancient FLOOD stories throughout the world. One just needs to search them out.

There is the indication that the FLOOD may have happened about 5000 years ago. "Modern" culture seems to have its start about 4000 years ago.

Apologetics at it's finest.

Firstly, the Earth herself shows that the surface never consisted of "hills and was mostly flat". There have always been tall mountains and especially sea beds. Sorry, but there is simply no way to wiggle out of the absurdity of a WWF.

Secondly, we have writtings older than 6,000 years, and historical representations in cave paintings and artifacts far older, so you are wrong once again, besides there being NO indication of any WWF at all. There is no deep calcium and/or fossil layer showing a massive world wide die out occuring at once, no marine fossils on mountain tops, not enough water on the planet, etc.

Lastley, describe "modern culture". The Egyptians, the most advanced cutlure of the ancient world, is some 7,000 years old.

 

[AxisMundi]

I would believe that other FLOOD tales originated from the TRUTH.

Floods occur, there is no denying that. Even devastating flood for people who didn't move around a whole lot where, for them, their entire world was devastated.

There is also the lowering of sea levels after the last Ice Age, for which Man was present.

However, there is simply no way possible that a WWF could occur. There is no evidence in archaeological record, and there simply isn't enough water on, or in, the planet.

 

[AxisMundi]

Only one man was swallowed and carried for 3 days. Read JOB Chapters 40 & 41. Sounds like dinosaurs to me...

As for Lot's wife"This remarkable happening is stated matter-of-factly, with no suggestion that it was a special miracle or divine judgment. Lot’s wife "looked back" (the phrase might even be rendered "returned back" or "lagged back") seeking to cling to her luxurious life in Sodom (note Christ’s reference to this in Luke 17:32,33) and was destroyed in the "overthrow" (Genesis 19:25,29) of the city. There are many great deposits of rock salt in the region, probably formed by massive precipitation from thermal brines upwelling from the earth’s deep mantle during the great Flood. Possibly the overthrow buried her in a shower of these salt deposits blown skyward by the explosions. There is also the possibility that she was buried in a shower of volcanic ash, with her body gradually being converted into "salt" over the years following through the process of petrifaction, in a manner similar to that experienced by the inhabitants of Pompeii and Herculaneum in the famous eruption of Mount Vesuvius.

1. The dinos died out 65 million years ago. Also, the stomachs of animals are like our own, a man would not be able to survive in an animal's stomach. Lack of air, filled with sea water, and digestive enzymes would see to his demise.

2. Despite searching industriously for two millenia, biblical archaeologists have been unable to locate Sodom or Gomorrah. There is the troublesome fact that there is no non-biblical confirmation of said cities in ancient texts, plus a complete lack of any areas where four cities total where destroyed.

To further dismantle your apologetics, there was no great flood for salt to "percolate up through the crust". Ancient man did not possess explosives powerful enough. And finally, the victims of Pompeii were not turned into salt.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As a subscriber to the Jewish religion, I know better.

lol,,,,,

for once Jayhawker, your curmudgeon like attitude is oh so correct on this issue...

Even a broken watch ...