Should the UK and Canada trust the USA today

[Terrywoodenpic]

We haven't had a summer in 10 years. We're all broke and the banks are an anchor on our collective future.
No one's interested in invading us. They might have to stay .

Now that might be a way out of your problem...
get invaded and take on the currency of the invaders. No one claims debts from the dead currencies.

 

[Father Heathen]

No not for giggles ....it would be for Gain....
They would no longer want the UK except as a long term staging post off Europe. ( that has already been in earlier plans against the Soviets)

However Canada with such a small population and vast resources, including the Arctic , is a tasty morsel. Canada are well aware of the problem.

It would be hugely unpopular and wouldn't have domestic support, it would be political suicide and leave the U.S. without allies or trade partners. No mention it would be an insanely expensive undertaking and require spreading the military way too thin. It's laughably unrealistic and implausible. I realize that you dislike the U.S., but you need to separate the reality from the cartoon caricature in your head.

 

[Kathryn]

Probably why their leaders get on so well with yours.

Where do you think we learned it?

Of course I'm being facetious. Not a single powerful nation in history has a sterling reputation. Power doesn't generally bring out the best in people. ANY people.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Are you really not able to destinguish between two vastly different situations?

In situation 1 you have the vast british empire which probably could last 100 more years. With the biggest naval force that has ever sailed the seas.

Compared to... now. Where the glorious Royal Navy doesnt even have one aircraft carrier in service.


And you do realise that the UK had the exact same plans against the US right?

No, our plans were very different, we knew we could defeat the American navy, We also knew we could terrorise the eastern coast and its cities. But we could not win a land war.
Our plan was simply a successful threat. Much like the cold war.

To day American interests Are different, but the UK might make a useful stepping stone, albeit rather costly to win.

However one way or another "Friendly Nations" are only to be trusted as long as it suits them to be your friend. History has confirmed that mamy many times.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It would be hugely unpopular and wouldn't have domestic support, it would be political suicide and leave the U.S. without allies or trade partners. No mention it would be an insanely expensive undertaking and require spreading the military way too thin. It's laughably unrealistic and implausible. I realize that you dislike the U.S., but you need to separate the reality from the cartoon caricature in your head.

If the situation arises where the USA can Annex Canada it will do so. Your leaders and theirs are well aware of it. Alaska cost a song and not a drop of blood, it is now a State.

There will come a scenario in the future when the Arctic sea ( then open water) becomes of vital interest. Canada will probably need help to maintain its claim. It is then that the USA can pressure a virtual annexation.

I do not dislike the USA at all, we all critisize our friends... some of its laws and politics, certainly are the pits. but I am realistic enough to know that its friendships are only as deep as its self interest.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Baloney. They were built to make it difficult for the Russians to take out all of the US's air capability with a few well-placed nuclear missiles. It was the same mentality that gave rise to DARPANet/the internet.

They were built in the 20's and 30's before Russia and communism and the bomb were even a twinkle the the USA eye.

But why buy the cow (or kill the farmer and take his farm) when you get the milk for free?

that is what people always think before a land grab.
Most of Canada is unexploited.....

 

[Father Heathen]

I but I am realistic enough to know that its friendships are only as deep as its self interest.

Be that as it may, the U.S. isn't going to pull off some corny hollywood movie nonsense that completely ignores a billion factors.

 

[Oneatatime]

In the light of war plan red should can the UK and Canada trust the USA in the future.
War Plan Red - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the 1920's and 30's there was more US sympathy for Germany than the British Empire.
Even Hitler had a strong following.
Were it not for the German's own war effort, WW2 might have been between the USA and the UK. It was not until 1939 that the plan was shelved, but not destroyed.

All countries have to plan for the worse in order to keep their options open, and the UK used to be quite chummy with Germany before the War. Our royalty is German and Hitler liked the UK and didn't want to get into a war with it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Be that as it may, the U.S. isn't going to pull off some corny hollywood movie nonsense that completely ignores a billion factors.

Of course not.
It has had the military history of the British and French Empires to learn from.
However it is not that good at taking obvious factors into account. when you consider its recent adventures in the far...middle and near east.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

All countries have to plan for the worse in order to keep their options open, and the UK used to be quite chummy with Germany before the War. Our royalty is German and Hitler liked the UK and didn't want to get into a war with it.

Hitler admired the British and thought, like everyone else, that we would fight America to maintain our supremacy.

Our Government leaders were exceptionaly weak, but did not back away from the inevitable. Fortunately Churchill was waiting in the wings.

Some of the upper classes indeed supported Hitler, as did rather more in the USA, and both had the equivalent of the Hitler youth and black shirts.

Our royalty is not so much German, as married into German cousins. Indeed into Cousins in all the European royal families. ( Who else could they marry?)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If the situation arises where the USA can Annex Canada it will do so. Your leaders and theirs are well aware of it. Alaska cost a song and not a drop of blood, it is now a State.

What makes you think that this is a reasonable possibility? Do you have any rational reason for your paranoia other than a "what-if" scenario created as an exercise almost a century ago?

What insight do you actually have into US policy here, other than a sense that you think they're up to something?

There will come a scenario in the future when the Arctic sea ( then open water) becomes of vital interest. Canada will probably need help to maintain its claim. It is then that the USA can pressure a virtual annexation.

I think that as the Northwest Passage opens up, we're going to see disputes - diplomatic disputes - about things like where the limit of Canada's territorial waters should be, but this will be between Canada and many countries, probably including the UK, not just the US.

If actually relevant history is any indication, this might lead to a trade or diplomatic "crisis" on the scale of something like the softwood lumber dispute, but not actual armed conflict. It gives me reason for concern, but not concern of invasion.

AFAIK, the only country trying to make territorial claims in Canada is Denmark:
Hans Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

that is what people always think before a land grab.
Most of Canada is unexploited.....

It's also what people think just before a promised land grab fails to materialize.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Crazy, paranoid Canadians and British should definitely not trust the US.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

What makes you think that this is a reasonable possibility? Do you have any rational reason for your paranoia other than a "what-if" scenario created as an exercise almost a century ago?

What insight do you actually have into US policy here, other than a sense that you think they're up to something?


I think that as the Northwest Passage opens up, we're going to see disputes - diplomatic disputes - about things like where the limit of Canada's territorial waters should be, but this will be between Canada and many countries, probably including the UK, not just the US.

If actually relevant history is any indication, this might lead to a trade or diplomatic "crisis" on the scale of something like the softwood lumber dispute, but not actual armed conflict. It gives me reason for concern, but not concern of invasion.

AFAIK, the only country trying to make territorial claims in Canada is Denmark:
Hans Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


It's also what people think just before a promised land grab fails to materialize.

It has been a long term aim of the USA to annex Canada, ever since the war of Independence. So far they have lost any battles or supported the wrong side, or circumstances have shelved their plans. One does not need to be paranoid to suspect it is still on the back burner.

 

[sadiq]

It has been a long term aim of the USA to annex Canada, ever since the war of Independence. So far they have lost any battles or supported the wrong side, or circumstances have shelved their plans. One does not need to be paranoid to suspect it is still on the back burner.

Are you for real?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It has been a long term aim of the USA to annex Canada, ever since the war of Independence. So far they have lost any battles or supported the wrong side, or circumstances have shelved their plans. One does not need to be paranoid to suspect it is still on the back burner.

Who is the "they" you're referring to? The United States is not one monolithic, self-aware thing; anyone who participated in any of the past invasions or attempted invasions of Canada from the United States is long dead. Can you name anyone alive today who is trying to advance some invasion plan of Canada?

Can you give any evidence at all that anyone currently in a position of power in the United States government has had anything to do with such a plan?

Edit - again: do you have any reason or evidence for what you're suggesting? So far, all you've done is try to support one unsubstantiated claim ("the US wants to invade Canada") with another unsubstantiated claim ("the US has always wanted to invade Canada"). What actual evidence or rational argument do you have to support your position?

 

[bobhikes]

In the light of war plan red should can the UK and Canada trust the USA in the future.
War Plan Red - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the 1920's and 30's there was more US sympathy for Germany than the British Empire.
Even Hitler had a strong following.
Were it not for the German's own war effort, WW2 might have been between the USA and the UK. It was not until 1939 that the plan was shelved, but not destroyed.

If you read to the bottom the Canadian government authorized Defense plan 1 before we authorized War Plan Red. The Canadians planned to attack Seatle guess they knew about Starbucks)(

Everyone thinks those Canadians are just simple folk. It just aint true.:no:

 

[Father Heathen]

The whole notion is nothing more than poppycockamamie rubbish.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The whole notion is nothing more than poppycockamamie rubbish.

Is that you, Jay?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Tell you what, Terry: rather than arguing over whether this is a threat or not, let's try to place it on a relative scale.

In your opinion, which is more likely within the next, say, 20 years:

- A US invasion of Canada in some updated version of "war plan red",

or...

- A French invasion of Britain by way of the Chunnel?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Tell you what, Terry: rather than arguing over whether this is a threat or not, let's try to place it on a relative scale.

In your opinion, which is more likely within the next, say, 20 years:

- A US invasion of Canada in some updated version of "war plan red",

or...

- A French invasion of Britain by way of the Chunnel?

When war plan red was authorised and military fascilities were being built it was a real possability.

Today such things are no more than a possability.

The Op was should we Trust the US today.

Americans do not even trust their own Government especially over finance and personal rectitude. Many one time supported regimes are now being actively or recently attacked. American political support is not something that can be relied upon once their interests are no longer being served. That "change process" seems to be happening in Pakistan as we speak.

Today Canada, the UK and the USA have common interests. Friendship will last as long as those common interests, and no longer.

You can sleep easy for the moment, rest assured Canada has a "Plan"


France and the UK are more friendly today than they have been for a very long while, and are tied by many common interests. If the European experiment fails, who knows what the situation will be?