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Should the UK and Canada trust the USA today

Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Mr Spinkles said:
[Emphasis added] Right but I thought every country made plans for, and prepared for, the possibility of war with various other countries, as part of the cautionary principle. Most of these plans and preparations are never needed (like the American tanks arrayed in Europe in case of war with the Soviets). Was War Plan Red actually a plan to START war with the UK, or a contingency plan IN CASE OF war with the UK? My understanding is it was the latter.

If this was already covered my apologies, I'm still reading the thread ...
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This was an American iniative... If ww2 had not intervened they would have continued with the build up. After a certain point wars have a life of their own.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Mr Spinkles said:
[Emphasis added] Right but I thought every country made plans for, and prepared for, the possibility of war with various other countries, as part of the cautionary principle. Most of these plans and preparations are never needed (like the American tanks arrayed in Europe in case of war with the Soviets). Was War Plan Red actually a plan to START war with the UK, or a contingency plan IN CASE OF war with the UK? My understanding is it was the latter.

If this was already covered my apologies, I'm still reading the thread ...
Click to expand...

It was a plan to start a war with the British Empire by invading Canada.... The preparations were almost complete. America was pretty bitter about the way the British navy controlled world trade.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
This was an American iniative... If ww2 had not intervened they would have continued with the build up. After a certain point wars have a life of their own.
Click to expand...
So you're conflating this into some Schleiffen Plan of North America?

If the mere fact that a country has come up with a strategy for a hypothetical conflict means that they intend war, then I suppose we should all breathe a sigh of relief that they weren't able to go through with it - not just Canada and the UK, but also the Azores, the Phillipines, Cuba, China, Mexico, Iceland, South America, Latin America, and the United States itself.

United States color-coded war plans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Did the US intend to pursue all of these plans? If so, how could they have done it? If not, how did you decide that they were going to pursue "Plan Red" but not all those others?
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
]News | Mail Online

War Plan Red - America's plan for massive war with British Empire in 1930

There has been a lot of comment about it on the BBC and on the web recently, it seems more USA documents have been released ... some pretty nasty stuff.
The above links are just a flavour, and both give sources.... but if you want more detail the sources are fairly easy to find and follow.
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Some of the claims make no sense. For instance:

In 1931, the U.S. authorised flying hero and known Nazi sympathiser Charles Lindbergh to be sent as a spy to Hudson Bay to look into using sea-planes for warfare and seek out points of low resistance as potential bridgeheads
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Adolf Hitler wasn't even elected until 1932. And using Hudson Bay as a bridgehead into Canada? That makes no sense. The Americans would fly over Canada, then backtrack to launch their attack? Really?

But I'm also interested in this one:

Four years later, the U.S. Congress authorised $57million to be allocated for the building of three secret airfields on the U.S. side of the Canadian border, with grassed-over landing strips to hide their real purpose.
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Exactly where are these airfields? Can you give their specific location?

And AFAIK, a "grassed-over landing strip" is nothing more than a grass airfield. Yes, it's not exactly threatening-looking, but that's because it's not threatening. It's also completely unsuitable for landing pretty much any modern warplane.

If grass airfields are signs of intended invasion, then I shudder to think what the Americans think of all the ones we have on the Canadian side of the border.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
9-10ths_Penguin said:
Some of the claims make no sense. For instance:


Adolf Hitler wasn't even elected until 1932. And using Hudson Bay as a bridgehead into Canada? That makes no sense. The Americans would fly over Canada, then backtrack to launch their attack? Really?

But I'm also interested in this one:


Exactly where are these airfields? Can you give their specific location?

And AFAIK, a "grassed-over landing strip" is nothing more than a grass airfield. Yes, it's not exactly threatening-looking, but that's because it's not threatening. It's also completely unsuitable for landing pretty much any modern warplane.

If grass airfields are signs of intended invasion, then I shudder to think what the Americans think of all the ones we have on the Canadian side of the border.
Click to expand...

These details are from the written documents of the time and were shown on the BBC
Many people supported Hiler befor he came to power, bot in America and the UK.

They showed photographs of the Airfields both today and when they were built. I am sure if you trawl though the documents you will find the exact locations.

Modern war plans were not invented they were designed for 1930's equivalents.
Today there are sufficient motorway sections.

Grass airfields were used by fighter command in the UK right through ww2, they carried planes like the Dakota DC3 with no trouble. I flew daily from a grass runway at Lympne airport in a piper Aztec in the 70's to do aerial photography. The airport carried daily passenger flights to France. We still have many grass runways in the UK.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Terrywoodenpic said:
These details are from the written documents of the time and were shown on the BBC
Many people supported Hiler befor he came to power, bot in America and the UK.

They showed photographs of the Airfields both today and when they were built. I am sure if you trawl though the documents you will find the exact locations.
Click to expand...
But you've already trawled through them, haven't you? After all, you came to your conclusion after a rational review of the evidence, right?

Since you've presumably already looked through all this, why not point me in the right direction with some sourced quotes?

Terrywoodenpic said:
Modern war plans were not invented they were designed for 1930's equivalents.
Today there are sufficient motorway sections.
Click to expand...
So... the United States' freeways are evidence of a conspiracy to invade Canada and the UK?

Personally, I don't think they're evidence of anything but the United States' dependence on the car.

Terrywoodenpic said:
Grass airfields were used by fighter command in the UK right through ww2, they carried planes like the Dakota DC3 with no trouble. I flew daily from a grass runway at Lympne airport in a piper Aztec in the 70's to do aerial photography. The airport carried daily passenger flights to France. We still have many grass runways in the UK.
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As in Canada. And while they're perfectly fine for landing a Cessna 152 or even a DC-3, they're not up to the task of handling an F/A-18 or a C-5 Galaxy.

But again: exactly where are these airfields? You mentioned that they were constructed at three locations. Which locations? Please be specific. And if you know, could you tell me the runway lengths and what ancillary facilities were provided?
 
sadiq

sadiq

Spain, Morocco, Jerusalem
Fort Drum as in war drums?
this is proof of an American invasion plan, Rally the maple trees we march to battle!
 
Mr Spinkles

Mr Spinkles

Mr
YmirGF said:
Oddly, I can imagine Obama relishing the thought of acquiring a 58th state.
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Kathryn said:
OK, now that was funny as hell.

Honestly guys - we are going to let you keep Canada all to yourselves.

Carry on!
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Actually it was funny, but not in the way it was intended. I'll explain in terms Revoltingest is sure to understand: conservatives laughing it up because Obama accidentally switched the words "states" and "state primaries" is like Homer making fun of this guy:
[youtube]tv_o8_65-uU[/youtube]
Homer Laughs at his professor - YouTube
 
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