SHOULD WE ADMIRE JESUS?

[oldbadger]

In the last few years, Christians have pushed a political agenda for the concept of "family values." Nowhere does the Biblical Jesus ever mention the phrase "family values" nor does he even mention the word "family." On the contrary, it appears that the life style of Jesus contradicts the concept of modern Christian "family values." According to the Bible as well as Christian apologists, Jesus never raised a family, and never married or fathered children. Clearly, Jesus had no personal experience of a family. Furthermore, the words of Jesus expressed variance against family members:



For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW. And a MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD.

-MATTHEW 10:35-36

Not only does the Bible claim that Jesus came to set man at variance against members of the family, but he demanded that anyone wishing to become a disciple must hate them:


If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:26

And Jesus reveals the bribe and reward for forsaking your family:


And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

-Mathew 19:29

There's a few...and there are many more.

So it was a bit like the US or Charles1vParliament civil wars?

I guess that's jow Yeshua saw how the struggle would act on families? But, Yeshua also had an unfortunate relationship with his own familty........................

I already told you that he believed that good friends were better than bad family!
Mark {3:31} There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. {3:32} And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. {3:33} And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? {3:34} And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!

Don't bother me with what Christians believe, I just admire Yeshua BarYosef for what he tried to do for the working Jewish people, against the corruption, greed, decadence and carelessness of a Hellenised quisling priresthood.

 

[Kenny]

In the last few years, Christians have pushed a political agenda for the concept of "family values." Nowhere does the Biblical Jesus ever mention the phrase "family values" nor does he even mention the word "family." On the contrary, it appears that the life style of Jesus contradicts the concept of modern Christian "family values." ..., Jesus had no personal experience of a family.

Say WHAAAAAAAAT?




Beam me up, Scotty, there is no intelligent life down here.

Matt 15:
55 “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?
56 Aren’t all his sisters with us?

You don't have to have children to understand family. He followed his fathers office of carpentry and was a faithful son honoring his father and his mother until he began to preach.

 

[Fool]

Christians have held the main character of the New Testament, Jesus "the Christ," in high esteem for centuries. Although we have no evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever existed, we can still examine the words of the Bible to extract the wisdom and morality of this character, regardless of whether he actually lived or not.

Does the Biblical Jesus merit the honor bestowed upon him? Unfortunately, preachers, ministers, and clergymen have given us biased, one-sided stories, emphasizing and inflating what they see as positive while subverting or ignoring the negative.

Unbeknown st to many Christians, many times the Gospels of the New Testament portray Jesus as vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical. In one section Jesus calls for love of enemies, yet in another to slay them. He tells others to not use hurtful names, yet he called others fools, dogs, and vipers. He calls for honoring parents in one verse, yet demands hate toward family members in another. Some of Jesus' words against his adversaries depict what some would call anti-Semitism. Indeed, the verses of the New Testament have fueled the flames of anti-Jewishness for centuries.

If one is honest, the realization will come that the deeds and questionable wisdom of this Biblical character does not merit the admiration that so many have bestowed upon him.

idolatry is never advocated in the bible.

pretty is as pretty does and supposedly its more important what someone does than what someone says.

27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.

28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Christians have held the main character of the New Testament, Jesus "the Christ," in high esteem for centuries. Although we have no evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever existed, we can still examine the words of the Bible to extract the wisdom and morality of this character, regardless of whether he actually lived or not.

Does the Biblical Jesus merit the honor bestowed upon him? Unfortunately, preachers, ministers, and clergymen have given us biased, one-sided stories, emphasizing and inflating what they see as positive while subverting or ignoring the negative.

Unbeknown st to many Christians, many times the Gospels of the New Testament portray Jesus as vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical. In one section Jesus calls for love of enemies, yet in another to slay them. He tells others to not use hurtful names, yet he called others fools, dogs, and vipers. He calls for honoring parents in one verse, yet demands hate toward family members in another. Some of Jesus' words against his adversaries depict what some would call anti-Semitism. Indeed, the verses of the New Testament have fueled the flames of anti-Jewishness for centuries.

If one is honest, the realization will come that the deeds and questionable wisdom of this Biblical character does not merit the admiration that so many have bestowed upon him.

Jesus is the image of the invisible God.... so.... if you don't like what you see in Jesus you don't like the real God. Yes I would say the Bible calls people to honor Jesus

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father," Jesus in John.

"that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." Jesus in the gospel of John, Jn 5:23

 

[Rival]

No. And don't even mention Paul.

 

[Scott C.]

Christians have held the main character of the New Testament, Jesus "the Christ," in high esteem for centuries. Although we have no evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever existed, we can still examine the words of the Bible to extract the wisdom and morality of this character, regardless of whether he actually lived or not.

Does the Biblical Jesus merit the honor bestowed upon him? Unfortunately, preachers, ministers, and clergymen have given us biased, one-sided stories, emphasizing and inflating what they see as positive while subverting or ignoring the negative.

Unbeknown st to many Christians, many times the Gospels of the New Testament portray Jesus as vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical. In one section Jesus calls for love of enemies, yet in another to slay them. He tells others to not use hurtful names, yet he called others fools, dogs, and vipers. He calls for honoring parents in one verse, yet demands hate toward family members in another. Some of Jesus' words against his adversaries depict what some would call anti-Semitism. Indeed, the verses of the New Testament have fueled the flames of anti-Jewishness for centuries.

If one is honest, the realization will come that the deeds and questionable wisdom of this Biblical character does not merit the admiration that so many have bestowed upon him.

The important questions are, is Jesus Christ the Son of God and our Redeemer? Did he suffer the atonement and die and resurrect for us? Is he the Omnipotent God of the universe? If yes to all of the above, then yes, he certainly deserves our respect and worship. (And that is what I believe). But if he were just a man, then I'd have no more interest in him than many other teachers who have come and gone.

 

[Fool]

Jesus is the image of the invisible God.... so.... if you don't like what you see in Jesus you don't like the real God. Yes I would say the Bible calls people to honor Jesus

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father," Jesus in John.

"that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." Jesus in the gospel of John, Jn 5:23

to love, the action of loving, is the realization of God because God is Love.


honoring, or respecting, someone is not the same as idolizing and idolatry.

the bible advocates honoring one's elders. the bible doesn't advocate idolatry of one's elders.

all prophets are sent as sons of god.


The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,

 

[Fool]

The important questions are, is Jesus Christ the Son of God and our Redeemer? Did he suffer the atonement and die and resurrect for us? Is he the Omnipotent God of the universe? If yes to all of the above, then yes, he certainly deserves our respect and worship. (And that is what I believe). But if he were just a man, then I'd have no more interest in him than many other teachers who have come and gone.

jesus isn't omnipotent.
jesus isn't omnipresent.
jesus isn't omniscient.

jesus isn't God. jesus is an example, pattern, of God realized, manifested. I and the Father are one. I AM in the Father and the Father in me. All things were created by God within God.

I AM in Jesus and Jesus as I AM in other as self..

God is not a man that he should lie; nor the son of man that he should repent.


bring me some Light.

 

[viole]

Jesus is the image of the invisible God.... so.... if you don't like what you see in Jesus you don't like the real God. Yes I would say the Bible calls people to honor Jesus

"He who has seen Me has seen the Father," Jesus in John.

"that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him." Jesus in the gospel of John, Jn 5:23

And they would have been wrong.

Since Jesus admitted that only the Faher would know when He returns, then it is obvious that the two are different.

Something like:

Jesus: he who has seen Me, has seen the Father
Skeptic: so, you are the Father, as well
Jesus: mmh, yes. That would follow logically
Sakeptic: so, I cannot possibly claim to have seen the Father just by seeing you, if You are not the Father
Jesus: correct. You saw me, ergo the Father as well
Skeptic: so, when do You return?
Jesus: I am not sure. Only the Father knows

Ciao

- viole

 

[David T]

"Although we have no evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever existed"

science estimates that approximately 100-150 billion homo sapiens have lived and died. So i would say that your statement rather absurd and meaningless "scientifically" speaking. Now fantasy speaking we can ascribe some fantasy meaning to your statement but it's meaningless fantasy dressed up "believing" it's reasoning which actually is just southern Baptist, or Ken ham, or ugggh , Joel Olsteen. All scientifically speacking if course.

 

[whirlingmerc]

And they would have been wrong.

Since Jesus admitted that only the Faher would know when He returns, then it is obvious that the two are different.

Something like:

Jesus: he who has seen Me, has seen the Father
Skeptic: so, you are the Father, as well
Jesus: mmh, yes. That would follow logically
Sakeptic: so, I cannot possibly claim to have seen the Father just by seeing you, if You are not the Father
Jesus: correct. You saw me, ergo the Father as well
Skeptic: so, when do You return?
Jesus: I am not sure. Only the Father knows

Ciao

- viole

Jesus is not the Father. Clearly, He prayed to the Father.
The Trinity does not say the Father is the Son is the Spirit but are 3 in persons and 1 in nature
You are saying they are not 1 in person and 1 in nature

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Christians have held the main character of the New Testament, Jesus "the Christ," in high esteem for centuries. Although we have no evidence that the Biblical Jesus ever existed, we can still examine the words of the Bible to extract the wisdom and morality of this character, regardless of whether he actually lived or not.

Does the Biblical Jesus merit the honor bestowed upon him? Unfortunately, preachers, ministers, and clergymen have given us biased, one-sided stories, emphasizing and inflating what they see as positive while subverting or ignoring the negative.

Unbeknown st to many Christians, many times the Gospels of the New Testament portray Jesus as vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical. In one section Jesus calls for love of enemies, yet in another to slay them. He tells others to not use hurtful names, yet he called others fools, dogs, and vipers. He calls for honoring parents in one verse, yet demands hate toward family members in another. Some of Jesus' words against his adversaries depict what some would call anti-Semitism. Indeed, the verses of the New Testament have fueled the flames of anti-Jewishness for centuries.

If one is honest, the realization will come that the deeds and questionable wisdom of this Biblical character does not merit the admiration that so many have bestowed upon him.

Not a Christian but overall would say yes, Jesus as described in the bible is a good role model. Why don't you cite the verses (with context)? I don't know of anywhere in the bible that Jesus suggests to "slay your enemies" or "demands hate toward family members."

 

[Cobol]

I don't know of anywhere in the bible that Jesus suggests to "slay your enemies" or "demands hate toward family members."

Luke 19:27
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Luke 14:26
If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

 

[Fool]

Luke 19:27
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.

king is a metaphor; which means to exercise control

this is why a jury of our peers determines our guilt, or innocence. it is also why our judgment should be impartial and not based on the victims idea of punishment

Luke 14:26
If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

the Truth should be more important than familialism, or tribalism.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Unbeknown st to many Christians, many times the Gospels of the New Testament portray Jesus as vengeful, demeaning, intolerant, and hypocritical.

How's it going, Jimmy?

 

[Cobol]

king is a metaphor; which means to exercise control

this is why a jury of our peers determines our guilt, or innocence. it is also why our judgment should be impartial and not based on the victims idea of punishment




the Truth should be more important than familialism, or tribalism.

What truth are you referring to? I guess we should just take this metaphorical thing one step further, and just say god is a metaphor too, and the whole thing is fictional, and the anonymous authors had their own agenda.

 

[Cobol]

How's it going, Jimmy?

I don't know what to make of that one.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Luke 19:27
But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Luke 14:26
If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple.

Not sure about the quote from Luke 14, but Luke 19 was not Jesus speaking about his own enemies; it was a parable.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

What truth are you referring to? I guess we should just take this metaphorical thing one step further, and just say god is a metaphor too, and the whole thing is fictional, and the anonymous authors had their own agenda.

Probably. Doesn't mean there is nothing worthwhile in fiction.

 

[Cobol]

Not sure about the quote from Luke 14, but Luke 19 was not Jesus speaking about his own enemies; it was a parable.

You don't know that, and I would agree that the Bible is just one big simple fictional story.