I go back and forth on this. Some days I feel like it is mature and enlightened to be respectful of others' religious beliefs ("I don't agree, but I respect your beliefs..."). Other days I really just want to attack: I want to debate and argue every stupid, ignorant thing people say; I want to throw the notion of sanctity out the window and treat religious beliefs like any other absurd beliefs that are considered "acceptable" to ridicule. What do you think: should we atheists respectfully disagree or aggressively attack?
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Should we be repectful or militant?
- Thread starter jstan
- Start date
Are you an atheist?
Atheist agnostic or Agnostic Atheist unsure how I'm supposed to title it.
Cool. For some reason, I thought you were a theist. I should have looked at your title.
Well, if I have beliefs that are nonsensical, I want people to call me on it. But I get your point and that's why I think the respectful approach is more mature and enlightened. The counter argument is that fundamentalists are undermining our society and we have a duty to fight back -- a duty to counter idiocy and ignorance with reason and evidence.
Yeah, I'm not the typical atheist, I believe people that rely solely on reason and evidence are part of our problems. You need belief(in yourself and others) tempered by reason. So many atheists reason that they don't need belief.
"Should we be respectful or militant?"
Both, or at least civil.
The inherent lovability of atheists is our best weapon.....er...tool.
Both, or at least civil.
The inherent lovability of atheists is our best weapon.....er...tool.
E. Nato Difficile
Active Member
We're so seeped in religiosity in the USA that anyone who declares he doesn't buy into it is branded a militant killjoy. I try to be amusing, and maybe a little acerbic, in the way I question whether someone's piety is appropriate to the matter at hand. But I always come off as pushy anyway. Oh well.
-Nato
-Nato
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
I base how I treat people on the attitude and personality of each individual, regardless of their particular beliefs or worldview.
However, overall I'd say I'm generally like most people, and am usually neither militant nor completely respectful.
However, overall I'd say I'm generally like most people, and am usually neither militant nor completely respectful.
ScottySatan
Well-Known Member
Sometimes there's a reason to do one, and sometimes a reason to do the other.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
For me, it is definitely mood dependent. That said, I cannot honestly say that I am respectful of the beliefs of others. That would simply be lying. It is a fine point, but I will insist that, in person, at least, I am respectful of the person even if I deem their thinking to have come from out of a box of Cracker Jacks. For the most part I am fairly mellow, but if one flaunts their religion or dangles it in front of me then I might just bite. I usually start out with, "Yes, but you are working with assumptions about reality." If they manage a coherent retort, I may go further with them. Most people get a bit gun shy, rather rapidly however. For the most part, I view members of the Abrahamic religions I encounter as excitable little three year old's, all wild eyed and full of fancy tales. I tend not to take them too seriously and I am fairly certain they wouldn't understand me when I am on a roll. I prefer to feed the wild deer apples instead. It's far more entertaining and satisfying.
Warren Clark
Informer
I say "I accept your beliefs and you are free to believe it as I am free to not believe it"
all while thinking 'i accept your lost in stupid space' but i recognize that as an opinion based on personal beliefs so it mute.
heretic
Heretic Knight
jstan , everyone has his beleives that comforts him/her self even you, and some of those beleives may not be based on something tangible , this doesn't mean that they are certainly wrong or right . but means that they researchable and debatable , what I beleive is right may be wrong to you and vise versa .be cool we are not here to assess each other , we are here to exhange and clarfiy what we beleive
wayward_teen
Beautiful Disaster
People will come to atheism if they are ready. I've always hated the idea of proselytizing in any religion, and I think being really militant about everything will just make you look bad.
+1 for being respectfully tolerant.
+1 for being respectfully tolerant.
linwood
Well-Known Member
I think we can find something in between "respect" and "militancy" to use to regard our theistic fellows.
I offer not a shred of respect for theistic beliefs.
I believe them all to be delusion, often self imposed.
Like you I will smack down any theistic crap that is spewed forth around me.
I will do it brutally and with great ridicule if the moment calls for it.
I don`t however go looking for the opportunity.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I think you can show respect and tolerance for individuals as long as it's mutual, but as far as showing respect and reverence for beliefs; if they're absurd, irrational and unsubstantiated then I see no reason for anyone to feel obliged to. The only situation that warrants militancy is when people attempt to impose their beliefs upon others or use them as a justification to limit the rights and freedoms of others.
It depends on the situation.
For example, I am a Pagan. I have several friends that are also Pagan, but I have at least one friend that is devout Christian and I also have a friend that is a strict Atheist.
People wonder how we get along. It's very simple. My Atheist friend and I have had many conversations. He respects my views because I realize that my religion is based in belief and not in scientific fact. I am comfortable with the idea that my religion is a set of stories to explain various things, and that they may not be spiritual fact. He also has respect for my views that, one can learn MANY things from religion without being Theistic. Just as one can learn from reading Aesop's fables without believing in them literally.
Our Christian friend, well he believes in the Bible. He also believes that Science proves creation in many ways. This can lead to various "Facepalm" moments. However, he is not trying to push his beliefs down our throats, therefor there is no reason to be militant or do the same. He is a very intelligent person in every other way, his beliefs are his own and they stay that way. He is also a bisexual and doesn't believe in oppression of any person for any reason.
In the above examples, being militant to someone that acts in this way would be self defeating. It would do nothing but make all Atheists seem like militant Douchenossles that are intolerant of others' beliefs and convinced of their own mental superiority. Which would be even funnier if there were ever a scientific discovery that proved even one point of arguments used by the Theists (Let's not say it's not possible. You never know, we can only speak of what we know now.)
Now if people try and shove their beliefs down your throat? Yeah let 'em have it if you really want. Realize, however, that it probably won't make things better. Likely it will do the opposite.
So to sum it up, I say be respectful or silent in most situations. There is rarely a reason to be militant about it, and even if there is cause to attack someone's beliefs... well it likely won't help anything anyway.
For example, I am a Pagan. I have several friends that are also Pagan, but I have at least one friend that is devout Christian and I also have a friend that is a strict Atheist.
People wonder how we get along. It's very simple. My Atheist friend and I have had many conversations. He respects my views because I realize that my religion is based in belief and not in scientific fact. I am comfortable with the idea that my religion is a set of stories to explain various things, and that they may not be spiritual fact. He also has respect for my views that, one can learn MANY things from religion without being Theistic. Just as one can learn from reading Aesop's fables without believing in them literally.
Our Christian friend, well he believes in the Bible. He also believes that Science proves creation in many ways. This can lead to various "Facepalm" moments. However, he is not trying to push his beliefs down our throats, therefor there is no reason to be militant or do the same. He is a very intelligent person in every other way, his beliefs are his own and they stay that way. He is also a bisexual and doesn't believe in oppression of any person for any reason.
In the above examples, being militant to someone that acts in this way would be self defeating. It would do nothing but make all Atheists seem like militant Douchenossles that are intolerant of others' beliefs and convinced of their own mental superiority. Which would be even funnier if there were ever a scientific discovery that proved even one point of arguments used by the Theists (Let's not say it's not possible. You never know, we can only speak of what we know now.)
Now if people try and shove their beliefs down your throat? Yeah let 'em have it if you really want. Realize, however, that it probably won't make things better. Likely it will do the opposite.
So to sum it up, I say be respectful or silent in most situations. There is rarely a reason to be militant about it, and even if there is cause to attack someone's beliefs... well it likely won't help anything anyway.
etherealascension
Secular Buddhist Humanist
I don't look for debates because they make my blood boil, BUT if anyone tries to spread their ideas and convert or convince others, I will come down like the hand of God (pun intended) on them. It is disrespectful in my eyes to try and spread your ideas, whether they are theistic or atheistic. Though I will often side with an atheist more simply because so many people are already against them.