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Should We Pay More People to Live?

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member

JustGeorge

Imperfect
Staff member
Premium Member
Minimum wages in some parts of the US are below the poverty line or almost there. Over nine million people die of starvation each year, and about five million die due to poor health care.

Should we pay more people to live? It's clear that a lot are either struggling to meet extremely basic needs or dying due to a lack of meeting said needs. There's enough wealth but not enough organization or will to help them.

Most of the poor folks I know aren't wanting a wage increase... that just drives inflation.

I'd rather see price caps...

And the right for healthcare for all.

I don't know how to accomplish these things, but I know what we've been doing doesn't seem to work for far too many.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Most of the poor folks I know aren't wanting a wage increase... that just drives inflation.

I'd rather see price caps...

And the right for healthcare for all.

I don't know how to accomplish these things, but I know what we've been doing doesn't seem to work for far too many.

Price caps are really tricky. If done wrong, the product simply won't be sold anymore, because profit will be elsewhere.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Minimum wages in some parts of the US are below the poverty line or almost there. Over nine million people die of starvation each year, and about five million die due to poor health care.

Should we pay more people to live? It's clear that a lot are either struggling to meet extremely basic needs or dying due to a lack of meeting said needs. There's enough wealth but not enough organization or will to help them.
Tricky title.
It's really about the UBI.
This has merit regarding social & governmental stability in
an age when ever more workers will become unemployable.
Improving robotic tech, & rising employee costs, ya know.
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Let's consider a few things.

1 - It is illegal to be homeless in the United States.
2 - Most people who are homeless refuse to go to a homeless shelter because they don't want to get clean, as homeless shelters don't allow drugs on their premises.

Also, I am disabled, live off the government, don't have my mom taking care of me at all anymore, and because I take advantage of so many subsidizes for the poor, I don't worry about money that much. Yes, my bank account gets low every month, and I can't afford everything I want, but let's just count all my welfare for a second.

1 - SSI ($1,000 per month)
2 - Section 8 ($166 a month for rent)
3 - Foodshare (more than $200 a month)
4 - Energy assistance (more than $300 a year)
5 - Lifeline program (discounted Internet and mobile service)
... there's more but those are the most important ones.

I don't own a car and use subsidized bus fare to get around. I get my groceries delivered for free because of my Foodshare. Everything I want is taken care for every month and I haven't worked in years, and I always have some money to play around with every month for fun.

Everybody is crying about a UBI and Universal Healthcare. I get Medicaid, which includes free visits to the doctor, medication that costs $1-$3 per script and free vision and dentistry.

Now I'm not saying that everybody can be in my condition. I have very severe bipolar. On a scale between 1-10 I'd rate my mental illness as a 8. But I make less than those people who make minimum wage do and I do pretty well. I don't, and can't, save money up, but I manage every month to own possessions most people in my position cannot afford. I don't smoke, I don't drink, and my most exaggerated spending comes from Sodastream and my Nintendo Switch.

Despite being on social security I don't believe in a UBI or universal healthcare. If I didn't have bipolar I would probably be a freelance computer programmer making multiple amounts of money that I already get from the government. I do believe that minimum wage should be $10 per hour at a federal level. The minimum wage was last raised in 2009 and is currently only $7.25. And in some states, like Wynoming, they can actually get away with paying less. However, for 90% of working Americans, they make more than minimum wage, so it wouldn't change most people's lives at all really.

Currently the average wage of an American is $20 an hour. There should be a law passed, that either does one or two things. 1 - raises the minimum wage based on inflation or 2 - makes minimum wage always half of the average wage.

As a pragmatic centrist that is what I would do. In many areas of the nation the minimum wage is already far above $10, like in California.

I'm sorry but as someone who has taken full advantage of the system I don't have much sympathy for those who don't want to take care of themselves. If you can work, work, if you can't, do what I did. I live a pretty comfortable life and I haven't worked in years.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member

And what makes a person worth something, in your view, if they are not really innately worth enough to warrant paying them to live? Do you think people become less 'productive' if you pay them to live, (is that a subjective term?) and so it follows that perhaps it is impossible that they become more 'productive' if you give them the higher foundation of being payed to live, at least minimally?
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
2 - Most people who are homeless refuse to go to a homeless shelter because they don't want to get clean, as homeless shelters don't allow drugs on their premises.

It seems to me that most often, they say that those places are kind of dangerous. I have followed various travelers on youtube, and that's what they said. They say it on other channels as well, I can't imagine they're all lying
 

Exaltist Ethan

Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
It seems to me that most often, they say that those places are kind of dangerous. I have followed various travelers on youtube, and that's what they said. They say it on other channels as well, I can't imagine they're all lying

The key word there is travelers. Travelers don't want to settle down. I live around Milwaukee and there's a Salvation Army homeless shelter downtown that is in an OK area. There's a lot of Section 8 areas in crap holes, but because my record was clean I was able as someone living with a disability to qualify for the same rental subsidy that is mostly being taken advantage from people with retirement income. By no means do I live in an unsafe part of the city - I live in a suburb and it's relatively quiet here. It took four months of being on a waiting list to get here.

I am not saying that my case is always what is going to happen to most people, but, I've been able to pretty much conquer my disability with medication, doctor visits, routine lab work and enough self-awareness to plan where I want to be in the near future. I know people who cannot do these types of things and live in group homes. And I know people who are in a similar position as me but are working.

You just have to work with what you got, find all the resources you can for yourself to fend on, and let luck take care of the rest.
 
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