Lindsey-Loo
Steel Magnolia
Have you actually reviewed the links?
And yes, they have helped me understand how God expects me to act, and how I, as a woman (well, girl really, but whatever) can contribute to the church and God's work.
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Should Women Preach the Word of God?
- Thread starter iris89
- Start date
Have you actually reviewed the links?
And yes, they have helped me understand how God expects me to act, and how I, as a woman (well, girl really, but whatever) can contribute to the church and God's work.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Christiangirl0909 said:
Yes.
God's grace is unceasing. Some women are able to serve while gagged, bound, and oppressed. If you are able to find meaning and purpose in your life while unappreciated and inferior, congrats.
I have reviewed the links, too, and I've seen that honoring and submitting to an abusive and disrespectful husband actually encourages the behavior to continue........which is the direct opposite of what the links claim.
Christiangirl, it happened in my first marriage, where I was quiet, meek, and the "good wife" when my husband was an alcoholic and felt it necessary to take out his frustrations on me. My husband (now) says repeatedly that he much prefers a wife who challenges him when he errs - which is what I prefer from a husband, too. So, it does go both ways.
I agree with A_E, in that this interpretation of scripture encourages elevating men to a god-like status where they are not held accountable for bad behaviour, and it IS damaging - and not just for those the husbands injure, but it is damaging for the husbands as well.
Then, again, we have more of a Buddhist household, where Guatama's teachings for having a happy and fulfilled marriage are followed - and husbands are taught to share authority with their wives. It does work, and beautifully, might I add.
Peace,
Mystic
Christiangirl, it happened in my first marriage, where I was quiet, meek, and the "good wife" when my husband was an alcoholic and felt it necessary to take out his frustrations on me. My husband (now) says repeatedly that he much prefers a wife who challenges him when he errs - which is what I prefer from a husband, too. So, it does go both ways.
I agree with A_E, in that this interpretation of scripture encourages elevating men to a god-like status where they are not held accountable for bad behaviour, and it IS damaging - and not just for those the husbands injure, but it is damaging for the husbands as well.
Then, again, we have more of a Buddhist household, where Guatama's teachings for having a happy and fulfilled marriage are followed - and husbands are taught to share authority with their wives. It does work, and beautifully, might I add.
Peace,
Mystic
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
MysticSang'ha said:
That's my interpretation of Ephesians 5.
15Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. 18And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, 19addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart, 20giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 21submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ.
22Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.
25Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, 26that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.[a] 28In the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church, 30because we are members of his body. 31"Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." 32This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. 33However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.
See.........when I read that in it's entirety, A_E, I interpret this teaching to be that a marriage isn't 50/50, or 70/30, or 90/10............it's 100/100. A wife IS to give her life to her husband and to respect his authority, and a husband IS to give all that he has to his wife and to treat her as an equal (love her as he loves his own body).
I take issue with the interpretation that authority means "order" simply because some dude has gonads and I don't. Authority does encourage order, but it does so because said authority possesses a marked degree of wisdom and can teach it with compassion and patience.
I've never read anywhere that gonads are the prerequisite for possessing such abilities. I've also never seen that having a uterus ensures that I or any woman lack in those qualities. Thereby, authority based solely on gender is indoctrinated rubbish.
Peace,
Mystic
I take issue with the interpretation that authority means "order" simply because some dude has gonads and I don't. Authority does encourage order, but it does so because said authority possesses a marked degree of wisdom and can teach it with compassion and patience.
I've never read anywhere that gonads are the prerequisite for possessing such abilities. I've also never seen that having a uterus ensures that I or any woman lack in those qualities. Thereby, authority based solely on gender is indoctrinated rubbish.
Peace,
Mystic
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
See.........when I read that in it's entirety, A_E, I interpret this teaching to be that a marriage isn't 50/50, or 70/30, or 90/10............it's 100/100. A wife IS to give her life to her husband and to respect his authority, and a husband IS to give all that he has to his wife and to treat her as an equal (love her as he loves his own body).
Exactly.
I take issue with the interpretation that authority means "order" simply because some dude has gonads and I don't. Authority does encourage order, but it does so because said authority possesses a marked degree of wisdom and can teach it with compassion and patience.
I hear ya.
I've never read anywhere that gonads are the prerequisite for possessing such abilities. I've also never seen that having a uterus ensures that I or any woman lack in those qualities. Thereby, authority based solely on gender is indoctrinated rubbish.
Preach it!!:shout
Exactly.
I take issue with the interpretation that authority means "order" simply because some dude has gonads and I don't. Authority does encourage order, but it does so because said authority possesses a marked degree of wisdom and can teach it with compassion and patience.
I hear ya.
I've never read anywhere that gonads are the prerequisite for possessing such abilities. I've also never seen that having a uterus ensures that I or any woman lack in those qualities. Thereby, authority based solely on gender is indoctrinated rubbish.
Preach it!!:shout
Lindsey-Loo
Steel Magnolia
Never!
Just because women cannot do the same work as men, that does not mean they or their work is any less important.
I have reviewed the links, too, and I've seen that honoring and submitting to an abusive and disrespectful husband actually encourages the behavior to continue........which is the direct opposite of what the links claim.
Christiangirl, it happened in my first marriage, where I was quiet, meek, and the "good wife" when my husband was an alcoholic and felt it necessary to take out his frustrations on me. My husband (now) says repeatedly that he much prefers a wife who challenges him when he errs - which is what I prefer from a husband, too. So, it does go both ways.
I don't believe a woman should absolutely submit to her husband and be "queit and meek" when he himself is not following God. She should try to guide him down the right path, and they should try to work things out, as divorce is against the law, but she shouldn't have to sit there and take a beating.
I just don't believe a woman should have authority over a man...especially a brother in Christ.
And I absolutely agree. While a wife should submit to her husband, the husband should love and treasure the wife.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
beckysoup61 said:
1) I really don't think that the links provide the same qualifier.... it does say that the woman should help the husband along, but she is most definately inferior in every possible way.
2) The woman is on the same level as a child if she has to follow and obey, mere property of the male - a household slave, subject to her lord as her Lord.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Christiangirl0909 said:
Just because some women feel that they are not inferior when their religion tells them plainly that they are, does not negate the simple fact that the doctrine of inferiority is obvious.
If a person is denied anything (like authority = the right to preach in this case) because of their gender, then their gender is inferior. There is simply no way whatsoever to miss the inferiority/superiority setup when only one gender has something - obviously some Chrisitans think that males by virtue of their gender alone have some type of authority from God. Women, by virtue of their gender alone, must obey.
Superiors lead, inferiors follow/obey.
Such a system would be a perfect way for males to stay in power indefinately if we mindlessly read the text as a contemporary message from God.
Melody
Well-Known Member
I couldn't sleep last night so I put on my headphones and stuck my mp3 player onto the local christian station for some music. I turned it on just as the dj was asking his call in question (at 3:30 a.m.???) about what words of advice would you have for a couple considering switching their "roles". One woman caller was quite adamant that women should never work outside the home because it was against what the bible says about women being keepers of the home.
Any guesses as to how long it took me to get out of bed and get on the phone?
Any guesses as to how long it took me to get out of bed and get on the phone?
Mystic-als
Active Member
The big surprise for me is that it's not the men saying woman should stay at home bear foot, pregnant and in the kitchen. It's the woman saying they think God wants them to be subservient to men.
I, as a man, strongly believe that God wants dynamic, creative, assertive, caring, sensitive woman to help in the commission he sent his disciples out to fullfill.
We can quote the bible all day. Woman obey your husbands..... blah blah blah blah. But what about Men Love you wives as christ loves the church. Enough to die for. Enough to go through grueling punishment for.
Woman are below men? No. Do we have the same responsibilites towards the family and God. No. But that doesn't make the woman inferior to the man.
And ANY so-called man that says different is a coward and a wimp.
I'm sorry for getting a little heated on this subject but I'm tired of hearing woman being belittled. They/You are a wonderful gift. God himself formed you with his own hands. He didn't just say let there be woman. He made you with gentleness and love. He poured every ounce of creativity into forming your body and mind and soul. He knew that this would be the crowning acheivement of creation. The being he chose to bring life into this world. You should be proud to be a woman.
I, as a man, strongly believe that God wants dynamic, creative, assertive, caring, sensitive woman to help in the commission he sent his disciples out to fullfill.
We can quote the bible all day. Woman obey your husbands..... blah blah blah blah. But what about Men Love you wives as christ loves the church. Enough to die for. Enough to go through grueling punishment for.
Woman are below men? No. Do we have the same responsibilites towards the family and God. No. But that doesn't make the woman inferior to the man.
And ANY so-called man that says different is a coward and a wimp.
I'm sorry for getting a little heated on this subject but I'm tired of hearing woman being belittled. They/You are a wonderful gift. God himself formed you with his own hands. He didn't just say let there be woman. He made you with gentleness and love. He poured every ounce of creativity into forming your body and mind and soul. He knew that this would be the crowning acheivement of creation. The being he chose to bring life into this world. You should be proud to be a woman.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Mystic-als said:
If women are to be subject to their husbands by virtue of their gender, they are inferior, regardless of any gifts that they have. Slaves don't have to be abused or *further* unappreciated to be slaves. They are inferior by virtue of their status - whatever talents, gifts, or otherwise unique qualities they have, they are still slaves.
Secondly, and very importantly, the so-called authority of the husband is objective, and his love is subjective. That is, the authority of the husband is defined specifically by his ability to lead as per the obedience of the wife: this is objective and easily measured.
However, his love issubjective: how in the hell is his love to be measured as Christ's? He's not going to go to the cross every day and die for his wife. He is not perfect in virtue, meek, and absolutely submissive to God as Jesus was. He is going to love his wife as he sees fit: meeting her needs or not - destoying everyone and himself or not...
Mystic-als
Active Member
I'm not sure of what you are saying angellous_evangellous. Are you saying woman are inferior or not?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Mystic-als said:
I'm saying that Christiangirl's source or any other source that requires the unqualified or qualified subjection of women to men asserts that women are inferior.
Occasionally, I had tried to act like the "submissive" wife to my husband when he didn't know my little experiment............I wanted to see if there really was something to the claims that this brings ideal happiness and order to a marriage and family.
It didn't take long - Steve asked me directly, "Have you suddenly gone brainless? Where's my wife?"
He made it very clear that he preferred an adult - specifically one with a feminine perspective - and not another "yes-man"! He became bored, annoyed, and rather lonely with me in a role where I obeyed him. When I told him of my little experiment, he became rightfully upset and rather angry, and said, "Now why did you go and do that? You KNOW that's not what I want! I married you BECAUSE you are strong, assertive, and were willing to compromise with me............not because you had in mind to give up your attributes...........that wouldn't be a MARRIAGE!!"
Now, to me - that's a real man.
It's been quite a while since I experimented with submitting to him, because I really did upset him. He's much more content when I have the opportunity to challenge him, debate him, negotiate with him, and then have MY say about major decisions............he's said that when it's our lives that we're making, he doesn't feel like the whole world is resting on his shoulders. That speaks volumes, because sharing authority with women, then, would make things easier for men, too. It's made things easier for our marriage.
True, some decisions would not take as long if he were the sole authority in the household. But the rewards for that drawback far exceed the negative side. I feel like a WOMAN, and not a child in this arrangement.
Peace,
Mystic
It didn't take long - Steve asked me directly, "Have you suddenly gone brainless? Where's my wife?"
He made it very clear that he preferred an adult - specifically one with a feminine perspective - and not another "yes-man"! He became bored, annoyed, and rather lonely with me in a role where I obeyed him. When I told him of my little experiment, he became rightfully upset and rather angry, and said, "Now why did you go and do that? You KNOW that's not what I want! I married you BECAUSE you are strong, assertive, and were willing to compromise with me............not because you had in mind to give up your attributes...........that wouldn't be a MARRIAGE!!"
Now, to me - that's a real man.
It's been quite a while since I experimented with submitting to him, because I really did upset him. He's much more content when I have the opportunity to challenge him, debate him, negotiate with him, and then have MY say about major decisions............he's said that when it's our lives that we're making, he doesn't feel like the whole world is resting on his shoulders. That speaks volumes, because sharing authority with women, then, would make things easier for men, too. It's made things easier for our marriage.
True, some decisions would not take as long if he were the sole authority in the household. But the rewards for that drawback far exceed the negative side. I feel like a WOMAN, and not a child in this arrangement.
Peace,
Mystic
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
MysticSang'ha said:
The slavery of women degrades both partners.
"My servant, whether born in my house or bought with my money, stands to me in the relation of a child." - Benjamin Morgan Palmer, Slavery a Divine Trust. Duty of the South to Preserve and Perpetuate It, Fast Day Sermons: or the Pulpit on the State of the Country (New York: Rudd & Carleton, 1861), 64-67.
Melody said:I couldn't sleep last night so I put on my headphones and stuck my mp3 player onto the local christian station for some music. I turned it on just as the dj was asking his call in question (at 3:30 a.m.???) about what words of advice would you have for a couple considering switching their "roles". One woman caller was quite adamant that women should never work outside the home because it was against what the bible says about women being keepers of the home.
Any guesses as to how long it took me to get out of bed and get on the phone?
12 seconds? :angel2:
I'd love to hear what you said.
Peace,
Mystic