Should Women's Homeless Shelters Ban Trans Identified Males?

[Father Heathen]

Logically, it depends on the state of their bits. If they are post operative, then I see no issue.

Who's going to see it either way?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Sadly it is not easy.
The latter you transition the harder it is to look like a regular woman. Consider how parents may not be really supportive and how that may delay the transition.

Indeed. Not to mention going purely of looks isn't always a lock, either. https://nypost.com/2018/12/03/grandma-mistaken-as-transgender-sent-to-all-male-jail/

 

[Enoch07]

I'm pretty sure most women don't consider being assailed upon by a crowd of homeless men in a dorm to be a desirable situation.

In all fairness that is true.

But I bet you'd be shocked to find out how many secretly do desire similar situations.

 

[Father Heathen]

In all fairness that is true.

But I bet you'd be shocked to find out how many secretly do desire similar situations.

Not really. It certainly isn't the norm, though.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

But I bet you'd be shocked to find out how many secretly do desire similar situations.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Are they of the sex that can produce ova and bear offspring? Do they have penises?

So you're equating biological sex and gender?

Why are you even starting this discussion if you don't even understand what being transgender means?

 

[Enoch07]

Not really. It certainly isn't the norm, though.

You'd be shocked.

 

[Enoch07]

You know.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No, they're not.

Personally, I couldn't care less about someone who's gender is ambiguous following me into a bathroom, or a straight up female or whatever. I am not, nor ever have been, in danger from a female. Or a gender complex person of any kind.

I'm kind of a macho poophead. And gay to boot.

But I understand quite well why women don't have that attitude. Men are far more of a danger to them than me. So, I understand perfectly why women have, sometimes, an irrational fear of men.

And that includes men who are "now" women. I wouldn't ever deprive trans women of basic rights. But that isn't the same as giving them the rights to upset women in a shelter. Those women already have enough to deal with.
Tom

But trans women ARE women.

What, exactly, is the issue? Are you telling me you'd expect women to be uncomfortable if this person stayed in a shelter with them:

But they would be absolutely fine if this person did:

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There are documented cases of trans women sexually assaulting biological females

There are also documented cases of "biological" females sexually assaulting "biological" females.

So, no women should ever be kept together?

 

[columbus]

What, exactly, is the issue?

People telling the staff of a homeless shelter how to run it, and who to let in.

That's the issue.
People will try to make the issue their own gender issues or something, but it isn't. It's the staff of a homeless shelter deciding how to run the place, and other people telling them what to do.
Tom

 

[Stevicus]

Indeed. Not to mention going purely of looks isn't always a lock, either. https://nypost.com/2018/12/03/grandma-mistaken-as-transgender-sent-to-all-male-jail/

Both of these stories are outrageous. The first one doesn't even make any sense. The woman wasn't transgender at all, yet because of a hormone medication she was taking, the nurse automatically assumed she was a man.

A nurse, Fatu Kamara Harris, assumed she was born a man and popping estrogen to grow breasts — but she was actually undergoing hormone replacement therapy to help with symptoms of menopause, the court documents state.

A doctor, Rodriguez-Garcia, then “reclassified” her as male without asking about her gender, examining her body or inquiring about the hormones, according to the report.

When a corrections officer asked the nurse if she had physically examined de Veloz, she brushed her off, firing back, “She’s a man” — and then walked away, the Miami Herald reported.

I don't know, but it seems to me that any doctor or nurse who can't tell the difference between a man and a woman should not be practicing medicine. As a result, this woman had to spend 10 hours in a jail cell with 40 men.

Then in the video, I hope this woman is successful in her lawsuit against the restaurant.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

People telling the staff of a homeless shelter how to run it, and who to let in.

Isn't that exactly what you're doing when you say that they shouldn't accept trans women? And isn't that exactly what the bill proposed in the OP is intending to do?

That's the issue.
People will try to make the issue their own gender issues or something, but it isn't. It's the staff of a homeless shelter deciding how to run the place, and other people telling them what to do.
Tom

But you DO believe it's wrong for them to admit men to a women's homeless shelter, and you're okay with the concept of homeless shelters specifically FOR women, so you must be able to accept that there is regulation of that to some degree, right? I mean, the very bill proposed in the OP is proposing restrictions on the kind of people homeless shelter staff can admit.

You seem to have completely undermined your own position.

Also, I notice you didn't comment on the images. Why?

 

[Wandering Monk]

Me? I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

 

[columbus]

Isn't that exactly what you're doing when you say that they shouldn't accept trans women?

Nope.
Not even close.

I think that the staff should decide what is best for them and their clients. If their decision doesn't match your ideology, tough. The staff doesn't owe you anything, not even an explanation.
Tom

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So, tell me again why your opinion should Trump the opinions of the residents and staff of a homeless shelter.

I think that they should decide what works for them.

So what if you think they're politically incorrect?
Tom

*eyeroll* This thread is specifically asking people for their opinions on this policy. I gave mine. Nothing more.

Though 'businesses know best, only their opinions matter' is a lazy take.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Like so many of these wedge issues, I have to ask "how often has this been an issue?" Is it so common it demands an overarching intolerant policy, or is it something more appropriately dealt with case by case?

Trump's over reaction is typical for him. It comes from a mixture of ignorance and hatred. I think that centers need the flexibility to deal with this on a case by case basis.. Some women may be too traumatized to deal with trans-females. It is a problem that I am glad that I do not have to deal with. I just believe that denying the problem does more harm than good.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Nope.
Not even close.

Er, yes you are. You're denying homeless shelters the right to determine whether or not to allow trans people into their shelters. Unless you don't support Trump's bill.

I think that the staff should decide what is best for them and their clients. If their decision doesn't match your ideology, tough. The staff doesn't owe you anything, not even an explanation.
Tom

Now you're just rambling. There's no "ideology" involved beyond a simple acknowledgement that trans women are women. I can't help but feel that any "ideology" involved is a matter of your projection rather than my intent.

Also, please try to respond to more than just one sentence of my posts. I put effort into elaborating on my position and questioning yours - please have the decency to respond in kind and not sell me short.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Trump's over reaction is typical for him. It comes from a mixture of ignorance and hatred. I think that centers need the flexibility to deal with this on a case by case basis.. Some women may be too traumatized to deal with trans-females. It is a problem that I am glad that I do not have to deal with. I just believe that denying the problem does more harm than good.

Is it more of a problem, though, than transwomen who suffer staggeringly high ratios of violence, being turned away from aid either for their looks, or their papers? What if they're not comfortable being around men? Kind of a catch 22 imo.

 

[dianaiad]

But, a trans female isn't male. They're female.

If they have penises, they are male. Psychological issues aside, they are male. If their presence in a woman's shelter is based solely upon what they SAY they are, that is a problem....a big one.


And it's one I, were I running a woman's shelter, wouldn't deal with. A transgender (male to female) who can't produce medical proof that s/he is well along the process of a 'gender change,' isn't going to...and shouldn't be allowed access to...a woman's shelter. The same goes vice versa, of course.

IMO, of course. I believe that the women who are seeking shelter and protection from men who have abused them need the help more than the guy who just SAYS 'but I'm a woman!"

If he's not on hormones with a planned surgery schedule? Not a chance in hades.