Shouldn't the Trinity include Mary?

[djhwoodwerks]

Really? Can you turn water into wine?

No, why, can you?

 

[Ana.J]

No, why, can you?

No, I can't I was just commenting your phrase. If he is like us than we can do what he did, right? "He emptied Himself of all that made Him God and became exactly like us, "human"."

 

[djhwoodwerks]

No, I can't I was just commenting your phrase. If he is like us than we can do what he did, right? "He emptied Himself of all that made Him God and became exactly like us, "human"."

Matthew 17:19-20 (ESV Strong's) 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” 20 He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Mark 11:21-23 (ESV Strong's) 21 And Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” 22 And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. 23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.

 

[Ana.J]

Matthew 17:19-20 (ESV Strong's) 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” 20 He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

Mark 11:21-23 (ESV Strong's) 21 And Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” 22 And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. 23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.

yep....How many believers have been able to do the same?

 

[Glaurung]

Mary didn't give birth to God, or a God, she gave birth to a human named Jesus. He emptied Himself of all that made Him God and became exactly like us, "human".

Hypostatic union states that Christ is fully God and fully human and it is a defined doctrine of the Chruch. Insofar as you reject that, you're heretical. Which may not mean all that much to you but alas, I'll stick with the Chalcedonian view thank you. (You don't get to make up your own theology and expect to be taken seriously by more orthodox Christians).

(And not even those who rejected Chalcedon ever proposed anything close to what you're proposing).

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Hypostatic union states that Christ is fully God and fully human and it is a defined doctrine of the Chruch. Insofar as you reject that, you're heretical. Which may not mean all that much to you but alas, I'll stick with the Chalcedonian view thank you. (You don't get to make up your own theology and expect to be taken seriously by more orthodox Christians).

(And not even those who rejected Chalcedon ever proposed anything close to what you're proposing).

It would do you good to read a post a few times to understand what is being said before you respond.

I believe 110% that God, the Father was "IN" Jesus on earth. I do not believe that Mary gave birth to "God", Who has always existed! To say that Mary gave birth to God, assumes that God had a beginning, which is false. There is only one God!

If Jesus was "born" God, why didn't (or couldn't) He do any miracles until He was anointed (baptized) to do so?

Philippians 2:5-8 (ESV Strong's) 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Jesus gave up everything that made Him God and was born a "human", not a God!

 

[Glaurung]

I believe 110% that God, the Father was "IN" Jesus on earth. I do not believe that Mary gave birth to "God", Who has always existed! To say that Mary gave birth to God, assumes that God had a beginning, which is false. There is only one God!

The trinitarian doctrine asserts that Jesus the Son is distinct from God the Father. The Son is begotten before all ages, yet he incarnated at a specific time taking on a human nature. In no way did this detract from his complete divinity as God, so the Virgin Mary truly is the Mother of God.

If Jesus was "born" God, why didn't (or couldn't) He do any miracles until He was anointed (baptized) to do so?

Jesus did nothing on earth which was not the will of the Father to do so. Remember that despite being eternal God, Jesus incarnated as fully human and thus as a human Jesus had to observe his human obligations before God the Father, whose covenant he came to fulfil. (Since who but God can redeem man back to God?). Baptism is necessary for inclusion into the New Covenant, which Christ came to establish. Thus as man Christ was baptised and began his ministry of the New Covenant.

Philippians 2:5-8 (ESV Strong's) 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

And where have I ever denied the humanity of Christ? This does not at all detract from Christ as fully God. I have stated numerous times, Jesus incarnated as man and became fully human. What you fail to grasp is that this human nature does not detract from his complete divinity and oneness with God. Jesus is God and man. He was always God, but took his humanity at the incarnation. God taking on our nature to redeem us before the Father on our behalf is humility beyond our comprehension. The Son not only became human, but he as God allowed himself to die at our hands in one of the most humiliating ways possible, as a common criminal. God himself in all his omnipotence and dignity suffered this for us.

 

[Sonofason]

Mary didn't give birth to God, or a God, she gave birth to a human named Jesus. He emptied Himself of all that made Him God and became exactly like us, "human".

Exactly like us? So we all can perform those kinds of miracles?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

so the Virgin Mary truly is the Mother of God.

Remember that despite being eternal God, Jesus incarnated as fully human

Jesus is God and man. He was always God, but took his humanity at the incarnation.

So, Mary "DID NOT" give birth to God, she gave birth to the "HUMAN" Jesus. What made the "HUMAN" Jesus God? If God is "eternal", and Jesus was "always" God, how could Mary give birth to God?

 

[Glaurung]

So, Mary "DID NOT" give birth to God, she gave birth to the "HUMAN" Jesus. What made the "HUMAN" Jesus God? If God is "eternal", and Jesus was "always" God, how could Mary give birth to God?

Caps aren't an argument.

Jesus is God.
Jesus never ceased being God, even as a man he was still God. (Hypostatic union)
Mary gave birth to Jesus.
Therefore Mary as the mother of Jesus, is the mother of God.

No one is claiming that Mary precedes Jesus, nor is anyone claiming that Mary is the source of Jesus' divinity. There is no "human" Jesus and "God" Jesus, but one person with two natures.

The Word was made flesh, not the reverse as you advocate. Mary preceded the incarnation of the Word, but not the Word himself.

 

[psychoslice]

I don't know about old Mary, but I know that I am included in the silly trinity.

 

[viole]

Isn't the Holy Spirit arguably female? I've seen information on that but it's been a while so I cant remember.

Probably. For sure she seems to be far more offended than the other two if you blaspheme her. So offended, that blaspheming her is a one way ticket to Hell, no matter how sorry you are, afterwards.

Guys are so much more easy going about blasphemy. A couple of beers and they are friends like before. But women? Do not mess with women.

Ciao

- viole

 

[rusra02]

I never understood why it was called the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. I always felt Mary should have been included considering she is supposed to be sinless to Catholics and gave birth to the avatar of God.

I feel like there's no balance when women are taken out of the picture. and monotheistic faiths tend to be heavily male based. I never thought God or the creator was a man or woman but more of an it. But even then, in the trinity, I always thought it would make more sense to call it The Father, The Son and the Mother or The Father, The Mother and the Child. But then I guess they wouldn't be so monotheistic. Even then I thought it'd make more sense that way.

In fact trinities of gods, including father, mother, and son are common in pagan religions. Isis, Osiris, and Horus were an Egyptian triad. I do not believe the Bible teaches the trinity.

 

[ronandcarol]

Shouldn't the Trinity include Mary?
NO!
ronandcarol

 

[Perditus]

Shouldn't the Trinity include Mary?

Isn't Catholicism crazy enough with all its saints and statues, phony relics and archaic rituals?

Isn't your God the entity you should pray to instead of two mortals, JC and his mother?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Caps aren't an argument.

Jesus is God.
Jesus never ceased being God, even as a man he was still God. (Hypostatic union)
Mary gave birth to Jesus.
Therefore Mary as the mother of Jesus, is the mother of God.

No one is claiming that Mary precedes Jesus, nor is anyone claiming that Mary is the source of Jesus' divinity. There is no "human" Jesus and "God" Jesus, but one person with two natures.

The Word was made flesh, not the reverse as you advocate. Mary preceded the incarnation of the Word, but not the Word himself.

When a "HUMAN" is born, the woman gives birth to that "HUMAN", does she also give birth to the spirit inside that "HUMAN" or is it placed there by God?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Exactly like us? So we all can perform those kinds of miracles?

Mark 11:20-23 (ESV Strong's) 20 As they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. 21 And Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” 22 And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. 23 Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The trinitarian doctrine asserts that Jesus the Son is distinct from God the Father. The Son is begotten before all ages, yet he incarnated at a specific time taking on a human nature. In no way did this detract from his complete divinity as God, so the Virgin Mary truly is the Mother of God.

Jesus, the "HUMAN" Son of God, is distinct from God.

Philippians 2:5-8 (ESV Strong's) 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

What did He "empty" Himself of when He was born in the likeness of men and was found in "HUMAN" form?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Matthew 17:19-20 (ESV Strong's) 19 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” 20 He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”

I also note while Jesus moved no mountain, Krishna could

yep....How many believers have been able to do the same?

Not even Jesus did it.

Jesus did nothing on earth which was not the will of the Father to do so

Why does God only want Jesus to perform random parlor tricks and do little of mind-blowing value?

Jesus: I will feed the hungry at my sermon today. A few thousand of you? PFFBT! Easy!

Hungry people: We'll still be starving tomorrow, you know. Poofing up an orchard or something the Romans can't raze to the ground would be nice.

Jesus: Uhhhh .... I only do what God tells me.

Hungry people: So we had a prophet who could give a widow a magic pot or something that would feed them forever, but you can't handle it? And you're the improvement?

Jesus: LOOK! IT'S SATAN! HE'S BEING MEAN TO YOU!

Baptism is necessary for inclusion into the New Covenant, which Christ came to establish. Thus as man Christ was baptised and began his ministry of the New Covenant.

Rituals are made to satiate man, not man to satiate ritual.

 

[Muffled]

I never understood why it was called the Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. I always felt Mary should have been included considering she is supposed to be sinless to Catholics and gave birth to the avatar of God.

I feel like there's no balance when women are taken out of the picture. and monotheistic faiths tend to be heavily male based. I never thought God or the creator was a man or woman but more of an it. But even then, in the trinity, I always thought it would make more sense to call it The Father, The Son and the Mother or The Father, The Mother and the Child. But then I guess they wouldn't be so monotheistic. Even then I thought it'd make more sense that way.

I believe women get in the act through the Paraclete. Mary is not sinless but is blessed most probably because she is worthy due to her obedience to God.