Show me proof

[Onkara]

Something cannot come from nothing.

Point being; If you have an eternal uncreated universe/reality, then there isn't any need for it to be created in the first place.

MTF

Agreed. The only solution I have found for this is to accept that everything is "God". This means birth and death are happening in and to "God", without any real gain or loss on the grand universal scale.

It matters little if the universe was created or not, either approach is fine. Creation we witness on a lower scale e.g. animals and vegetation, may lead us to state that everything is created, fine.

Self-existence is the "proof" of "God", the kingdom of God is within. Those who look outward will miss it in the changing universe. That too is fine.

 

[krsnaraja]

Agreed. The only solution I have found for this is to accept that everything is "God". This means birth and death are happening in and to "God", without any real gain or loss on the grand universal scale.

It matters little if the universe was created or not, either approach is fine. Creation we witness on a lower scale e.g. animals and vegetation, may lead us to state that everything is created, fine.

Self-existence is the "proof" of "God", the kingdom of God is within. Those who look outward will miss it in the changing universe. That too is fine.

Have you tried delivering a baby? I can`t count how many babies I delivered in my 13 years working in an emergency hospital. Every baby you deliver to this world is a proof of God. Why talk about the creation of the universe, the stars, the galaxies, etc. When the creation of the baby inside the mother`s womb is proof of God. You, Onkara, is a proof of Goat (pun)!

 

[Onkara]

Have you tried delivering a baby? I can`t count how many babies I delivered in my 13 years working in an emergency hospital. Every baby you deliver to this world is a proof of God. Why talk about the creation of the universe, the stars, the galaxies, etc. When the creation of the baby inside the mother`s womb is proof of God. You, Onkara, is a proof of Goat (pun)!

I haven't delivered a baby, not even a kid (pun).

It reads like you have found the proof you were looking for in bold above.

 

[Looncall]

Have you tried delivering a baby? I can`t count how many babies I delivered in my 13 years working in an emergency hospital. Every baby you deliver to this world is a proof of God. Why talk about the creation of the universe, the stars, the galaxies, etc. When the creation of the baby inside the mother`s womb is proof of God. You, Onkara, is a proof of Goat (pun)!

The creation of the baby is chemistry. It is still wonderful. How silly to dress it up in mumbo-jumbo! Painting the lily and gilding refined gold, indeed.

 

[krsnaraja]

I haven't delivered a baby, not even a kid (pun).

It reads like you have found the proof you were looking for in bold above.

You are only a goat, kid. You are a proof of God. :yes:

 

[Sunstone]

Absolute proof god talks to us 24/7:

1. Rupert Murdoch's Broadcast empire talks to us 24/7.

2. Rupert Murdoch is of the opinion he is God.

3. Rupert Murdoch's opinions are fair and balanced.

Therefore, Rupert Murdoch is God.

Therefore, God talks to us 24/7.

 

[PolyHedral]

Ahhhhh, you have to make the prize something cool. Like...cookies. Or CAKE!

Cake will be availible at the end of the thread.

 

[Onkara]

You are only a goat, kid. You are a proof of God. :yes:

So now I know that I am proof of God. What is this life for? Should I keep chewing the grass or is there another purpose in your opinion?

 

[krsnaraja]

So now I know that I am proof of God. What is this life for? Should I keep chewing the grass or is there another purpose in your opinion?

Of course, Onkara. Your purpose here on earth is to create more proofs of God ( kids ). I`m not kidding.

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Hello! Scriptures say "although, in fact, [God] is not far off from each one of us. "- Acts 17:27. It means that we can understand God' view on certain things, his qualities, and his purpose for the earth, if look at the creation and into his written Word, Bible

 

[Dahl-J]

I think god died when science was accepted into the world.

Christoffer Dahl-Jørgensen.

 

[krsnaraja]

I think god died when science was accepted into the world.

Christoffer Dahl-Jørgensen.

It was Medical Science which resurrected God from the dead. If you think about it the word Medic came originally from the sanskrit word Vedic.

 

[Photonic]

Of course, Onkara. Your purpose here on earth is to create more proofs of God ( kids ). I`m not kidding.

Do you just deliver babies? Do you have any idea how they are made? DO you understand the chemical processes that cause it?

Misunderstanding of a process is not a meaningful way of claiming God.

 

[ManTimeForgot]

Agreed. The only solution I have found for this is to accept that everything is "God". This means birth and death are happening in and to "God", without any real gain or loss on the grand universal scale.

It matters little if the universe was created or not, either approach is fine. Creation we witness on a lower scale e.g. animals and vegetation, may lead us to state that everything is created, fine.

Self-existence is the "proof" of "God", the kingdom of God is within. Those who look outward will miss it in the changing universe. That too is fine.

An eternal uncreated reality which was also self-directing due to some form of consciousness/self-awareness would indeed be worthy of the label "God" (in the capitalized letter sense; this is an absolute; it is not transcendental in that it does not exceed reality; kind of definitional really it is reality so it cannot exceed it).

But this only highlights the problem of asking for proof in the first place. We have precisely ZERO idea or evidence about what the great unknown is like. We have no idea if reality is created or uncreated. We don't even know if this universe is created or uncreated. When anything is possible, then you have zero knowledge.


And since we have multiple working (possible) cosmologies still in competition some of which require "God" of a certain type and others which do not; while still others utilize a "God" of a different type... and so on and so forth; you can never reach the level where you can make a strong claim about "God" one way or the other.

We simply do not have enough evidence to commit to any one position. I respect a person's right to personally commit to an option, and, in point of fact, I encourage this so that we can explore the options. But that is not the same thing as saying that we should all believe a certain way. When something is true, then we should all believe a certain way. When something is barely approaching the level where we can identify it as true, then we should maintain doubt and play devil's advocate in order to keep ourselves on our toes. When something is completely unknown to us, then we need to keep our mind's open and not commit to anything strongly.

MTF

 

[krsnaraja]

Do you just deliver babies? Do you have any idea how they are made? DO you understand the chemical processes that cause it?

Misunderstanding of a process is not a meaningful way of claiming God.

You don`t know how you were created? C`mon. Between 60,000,000-150,000,000 sperms, only one (you ) made it ( fertilize the ovum).

 

[Photonic]

You don`t know how you were created? C`mon. Between 60,000,000-150,000,000 sperms, only one (you ) made it ( fertilize the ovum).

Yea, I was a lucky sperm, big deal. That doesn't prove anything. This is an argument that has been made by many.

Douglas Adams had something to say on the matter (many things actually).

“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bog-gglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: `I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God, `for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.'
`But,' says Man, `The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED.'
`Oh dear,' says God, `I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.
`Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets
himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”

On a more seriously note this one applies a little bit more.

Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!" This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise. I think this may be something we need to be on the watch out for. We all know that at some point in the future the Universe will come to an end and at some other point, considerably in advance from that but still not immediately pressing, the sun will explode. We feel there's plenty of time to worry about that, but on the other hand that's a very dangerous thing to say.

 

[DreadFish]

Cake will be availible at the end of the thread.

Im sorry to inform you but, the cake is a lie.

 

[Photonic]

Im sorry to inform you but, the cake is a lie.

My girlfriend is making me chocolate lava cake, does that count? :drool:

 

[krsnaraja]

Yea, I was a lucky sperm, big deal. That doesn't prove anything. This is an argument that has been made by many.

Go to a casino. & play the slot machines. To attract players it offers a jack pot prize say 100,000 dollars. If you are not the lucky you, it will take you several lifetimes or not at all to win that jackpot prize. & you still don`t believe that you won the jackpot prize of being born into this world?

 

[Photonic]

Go to a casino. & play the slot machines. To attract players it offers a jack pot prize say 100,000 dollars. If you are not the lucky you, it will take you several lifetimes or not at all to win that jackpot prize. & you still don`t believe that you won the jackpot prize of being born into this world?

Not really. The same would have gone for any other sperm that happened to be the one to fertilize. It's a moot argument.