Also I may add that guidance is assured under the covenant, when all the requirements are followed.
That is why we are to obey our LSA and support its decisions.
Regards Tony
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Signs of the Times - What’s happening to our world?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Also I may add that guidance is assured under the covenant, when all the requirements are followed.
That is why we are to obey our LSA and support its decisions.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe we have to be perfect in our hearts in order to share the message of Baha'u'llah. The only requirement is that we are firm believer in God:
“Say: Teach ye the Cause of God, O people of Bahá, for God hath prescribed unto every one the duty of proclaiming His Message, and regardeth it as the most meritorious of all deeds. Such a deed is acceptable only when he that teacheth the Cause is already a firm believer in God, the Supreme Protector, the Gracious, the Almighty. He hath, moreover, ordained that His Cause be taught through the power of men’s utterance, and not through resort to violence. Thus hath His ordinance been sent down from the Kingdom of Him Who is the Most Exalted, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 278
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What prime directive do you think I have?
I agree that there are many facts that Americans ignore and they do not want to be inconvenienced, but that is too broad. I cannot know what facts you are referring to unless you tell me.
aeon6
Member
I don't feel privileged or enriched by your sanctimonious approach, or maybe that is the intent all along. A sort of passive aggressiveness, shrouded under the obedience of your docile masses.
True that there are "worse" religions to be a slave to, so don't make yourself one of them.
True that there are "worse" religions to be a slave to, so don't make yourself one of them.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am not a slave to the Baha'i Faith, in fact I am a dissenter a lot of the time.
I am not even involved in the Baha'i community, I just believe in Baha'u'llah.
I guess you have not read all my posts.
Baha'u'llah wrote to all the Rulers of the Earth, all the Religions, all the people of the world and proclaimed to them one and all that it is He that wait for.
The Bab did that at the Kabah on His declaration as well and no respect was shown there either, but, He was the most honest person and merchant in all his life dealings.
As all await for this Message, why do they choose not to show due respect to the proclamation of such a message?
I am in no need of respect from any person CG, this is not about me, it is about us. Who is drawing the lines? I am a world citizen, every person is my brother or sister, I treat them as I treaty own self, all are welcome, all are loved. Just as a family is made up of individuals, so is this world.
It takes many colours to make a wonderful pleasing garden, so it also takes personalities to make a wonderdul diversity in this world.
People even post zodiac horoscopes to show the different personalities. If it helps you to see this look up what it is to be a Libran.
https://www.quora.com/What-characteristics-belong-to-the-sign-Libra
I am really just a teddy bear when it comes to conflict of opinions
Regards Tony
InChrist
Free4ever
Just because Christians have been looking forward to the return of Christ and saying He’s coming doesn’t mean it won’t at some moment happen and Jesus will keep His word.Any time now..... Christians have been saying that forever, and still no Jesus.
I believe Jesus has already returned and we are living in the End Times.
Nobody, except Christians, ever said there would be no more tribulations AFTER Jesus returned and there is no basis for that in the Bible.
I think if one even briefly skims over the passages in the scriptures concerning the end time tribulations it should be clear enough to see that nothing we’ve experienced even compares to worldwide devastation of the final great tribulation.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Just because Christians have been looking forward to the return of Christ and saying He’s coming, that does not mean He is coming.
If Jesus keeps His Word, Jesus will not be coming.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
That would be someone that did not experience the first and 2nd world war would say. Otherwise one would realise why the League of Nations and then the United Nations was formed.
It appears we need another event so a Real union of nations can happen, maybe then 3rd time lucky, people will see the warning has been given.
RegardsTony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I just started off where I left off, so I haven't read through the many posts to come. But, that is exactly what I've asked them many times. To me, it seems like the bad stuff happens before Jesus returns. The Baha'i have all the bad stuff predicting happening, like the beasts and dragons, Armageddon, the Anti-Christ, earthquakes and wars, but then after their prophet returned as the promised one of not only Christians, but of every religion, then, because the leaders of the world rejected him, more bad stuff is happening... like plagues, earthquakes and wars. They say once it gets so bad that the world can't take anymore, then the world will turn to the Baha'is. Who, supposedly, have all the answers right now. We just don't care to listen to them.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
They won't be turning to the Bahais unless they know the Baha'i Faith exists, and the way it is going now....
Well hopefully, you can do the math.
Welcome back.
Spartan
Well-Known Member
No offense to anyone, but I don't put any faith in what the Baha'i are claiming on that. The Bible has a good track record on Jesus, etc. He came right on time - as prophesied - the first time.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yes, I was up in the Chico area visiting my brother. He lives down the hill from Paradise, and we know some people up there that lost everything in the fire. And, barely got out of there. The day I came back, I stopped at the store and was shocked to see the shelves empty.
Now, we are supposed to stay in place? If this isn't a wide open door for Baha'is, then I don't want to see what's coming next. My Baha'i friends were very progressive. They always had problems with the administrative people on the LSA's. One wanted to have the San Diego Baha'is host a reggae band at the Baha'i Center. The reggae people were thrilled, and it almost happened. But, it was voted down because they thought it would be sending a bad message. The reggae people believed in peace and harmony. They had lots of minority people following them. But, they smoked pot and they dressed different and had long dread-locked hair.
Ironically, the best Baha'i event I ever went to was the San Francisco Peace Conference in '85 or '86. It did include non-Baha'i people from all sorts of backgrounds giving talks. My favorites were the Native American speakers, especially the Hopi leader that spoke about the Hopi prophecies.
So, we got two problems. The world isn't accepting the Baha'is Faith and too many Baha'is aren't truly accepting the people of the world. Now, I don't know what has happened since, but in those olden days there was a story about a Baha'i named Hooper Dunbar. The story I was told is that he went into a tribal village. The chiefs all sat down in a circle with Hooper, then they passed around a bowl with a red liquid in it. He drank some and passed it on. It ended up it was turtle blood, but because he drank it, he was accepted and they listened to him. I don't remember if this village was one of them, but I was told stories of whole villages becoming Baha'is. What happened to them? Are they still Baha'i? Do they practice Baha'i laws in their village? Did other Baha'is come visit and drinking drink blood with them and get kicked out?
Now, what funny is, what if it wasn't blood. What if they passed around a pipe with some hallucinogenic drug. Would the Baha'is join in? I think some tribes have fermented drinks also. Would a Baha'i take part in the ceremony? Then, if they'll do that to connect to those people, why won't they share a joint with the Reggae people? And I know, it's different. A long lost tribe in the middle of the jungle isn't the same as a bunch of pot smoking people in the city. But, they weren't going to have to smoke pot with them, just listen to their music about world peace and harmony.
Anyway, I wouldn't put it past my Baha'i friends if they did smoke pot with them. I know for sure they danced with them. And, those were the same type of Baha'is that I went with to Indian Reservation in the 70's. They joined in the dance. They ate the food. They didn't get into deep theological discussions. They kept the message simple. Oh, and one of those Reservations was the Makah Reservation on the tip of the Olympic Peninsula. The main Indian Baha'is there was the Taylor family. Their daughter married a Nez Perce Indian from Lapwai, Idaho. Their son Scott went to Seattle to go to college. You know what would be freaky weird is... if he's still around and you've heard of him. That would completely blow me away. Anyway, I got a lot more posts to read. See you next time.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
By the way, the math that was used to calculate the first coming of Christ was accurate, and the same math was use to calculate the second coming of Christ.
“Now we must prove from the Holy Books that these two Manifestations have come, and we must divine the meaning of the words of the Prophets, for we wish for proofs drawn from the Holy Books.
A few days ago, at table, we put forth rational proofs establishing the truth of these two Manifestations.
To conclude: in the Book of Daniel, from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the martyrdom of Christ, seventy weeks are appointed; for by the martyrdom of Christ the sacrifice is accomplished and the altar destroyed. 4 This is a prophecy of the manifestation of Christ. These seventy weeks begin with the restoration and the rebuilding of Jerusalem, concerning which four edicts were issued by three kings.
The first was issued by Cyrus in the year 536 B.C.; this is recorded in the first chapter of the Book of Ezra. The second edict, with reference to the rebuilding of Jerusalem, is that of Darius of Persia in the year 519 B.C.; this is recorded in the sixth chapter of Ezra. The third is that of Artaxerxes in the seventh year of his reign—that is, in 457 B.C.; this is recorded in the seventh chapter of Ezra. The fourth is that of Artaxerxes in the year 444 B.C.; this is recorded in the second chapter of Nehemiah.
But Daniel refers especially to the third edict which was issued in the year 457 B.C. Seventy weeks make four hundred and ninety days. Each day, according to the text of the Holy Book, is a year. For in the Bible it is said: “The day of the Lord is one year.” 5 Therefore, four hundred and ninety days are four hundred and ninety years. The third edict of Artaxerxes was issued four hundred and fifty-seven years before the birth of Christ, and Christ when He was martyred and ascended was thirty-three years of age. When you add thirty-three to four hundred and fifty-seven, the result is four hundred and ninety, which is the time announced by Daniel for the manifestation of Christ.
But in the twenty-fifth verse of the ninth chapter of the Book of Daniel this is expressed in another manner, as seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; and apparently this differs from the first saying. Many have remained perplexed at these differences, trying to reconcile these two statements. How can seventy weeks be right in one place, and sixty-two weeks and seven weeks in another? These two sayings do not accord.
But Daniel mentions two dates. One of these dates begins with the command of Artaxerxes to Ezra to rebuild Jerusalem: this is the seventy weeks which came to an end with the ascension of Christ, when by His martyrdom the sacrifice and oblation ceased.
The second period, which is found in the twenty-sixth verse, means that after the termination of the rebuilding of Jerusalem until the ascension of Christ, there will be sixty-two weeks: the seven weeks are the duration of the rebuilding of Jerusalem, which took forty-nine years. When you add these seven weeks to the sixty-two weeks, it makes sixty-nine weeks, and in the last week (69–70) the ascension of Christ took place. These seventy weeks are thus completed, and there is no contradiction.
Now that the manifestation of Christ has been proved by the prophecies of Daniel, let us prove the manifestations of Bahá’u’lláh and of the Báb. Up to the present we have only mentioned rational proofs; now we shall speak of traditional proofs.
In the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, verse thirteen, it is said: “Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?” Then he answered (v. 14): “Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”; (v. 17) “But he said unto me … at the time of the end shall be the vision.” That is to say, how long will this misfortune, this ruin, this abasement and degradation last? meaning, when will be the dawn of the Manifestation? Then he answered, “Two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” Briefly, the purport of this passage is that he appoints two thousand three hundred years, for in the text of the Bible each day is a year. Then from the date of the issuing of the edict of Artaxerxes to rebuild Jerusalem until the day of the birth of Christ there are 456 years, and from the birth of Christ until the day of the manifestation of the Báb there are 1844 years. When you add 456 years to this number it makes 2300 years. That is to say, the fulfillment of the vision of Daniel took place in the year A.D. 1844, and this is the year of the Báb’s manifestation according to the actual text of the Book of Daniel. Consider how clearly he determines the year of manifestation; there could be no clearer prophecy for a manifestation than this.
In Matthew, chapter 24, verse 3, Christ clearly says that what Daniel meant by this prophecy was the date of the manifestation, and this is the verse: “As He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?” One of the explanations He gave them in reply was this (v. 15): “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand).” In this answer He referred them to the eighth chapter of the Book of Daniel, saying that everyone who reads it will understand that it is this time that is spoken of. Consider how clearly the manifestation of the Báb is spoken of in the Old Testament and in the Gospel.
To conclude, let us now explain the date of the manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh from the Bible. The date of Bahá’u’lláh is calculated according to lunar years from the mission and the Hejira of Muḥammad; for in the religion of Muḥammad the lunar year is in use, as also it is the lunar year which is employed concerning all commands of worship.
In Daniel, chapter 12, verse 6, it is said: “And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and a half; and that when He shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.” 6
As I have already explained the signification of one day, it is not necessary to explain it further; but we will say briefly that each day of the Father counts as a year, and in each year there are twelve months. Thus three years and a half make forty-two months, and forty-two months are twelve hundred and sixty days. The Báb, the precursor of Bahá’u’lláh, appeared in the year 1260 from the Hejira of Muḥammad, by the reckoning of Islám.
Afterward, in verse 11, it is said: “And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolation be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.” 7
The beginning of this lunar reckoning is from the day of the proclamation of the prophethood of Muḥammad in the country of Ḥijáz; and that was three years after His mission, because in the beginning the prophethood of Muḥammad was kept secret, and no one knew it save Khadíjah and Ibn Nawfal. 8 After three years it was announced. And Bahá’u’lláh, in the year 1290 from the proclamation of the mission of Muḥammad, caused His manifestation to be known. 9”
10: TRADITIONAL PROOFS EXEMPLIFIED FROM THE BOOK OF DANIEL, Some Answered Questions, pp. 40-44
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That's the problem. If you can't tell me practical things to do right now... little itdy bidy baby steps, then how do we move from where we are to the next level? Most Baha'is here can't even become one and show love and respect to the people from the different religions here on the forum. Who are they? Why do they believe what they do? I'm telling you the baby steps that Baha'is need to be taking. Be one, live as one, don't judge them, don't push your Baha'i teaching on them and you'll show them the truth of the Baha'i Faith by your actions. I know you can do it. And, like I keep asking, you probably do it with your relationships with your Mom and other Christians. You've invited some of us over for tea. Are you going to blast us with Baha'i beliefs and doctrines? I don't think you would. But, we'd be able to see how those Baha'i teaching have made you a better person by how you interact with us. Probably, not one person here is going to change their beliefs, but Baha'is can at least be the peacemakers.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks for sharing your stories. You have been around Baha'is for a long time. I became a Baha'i in 1970 when I was living in Santa Barbara, but I declared up in Bellingham, WA, which is where I heard about the Faith from my older brother. Things were a lot different back then, so I have to wonder what happened, just as you do.
You said: "Now, we are supposed to stay in place? If this isn't a wide open door for Baha'is, then I don't want to see what's coming next."
That is exactly what I have been thinking. The door is wide open just waiting for people to walk through. On that subject, I wrote up a long post to post on Baha'i Forums and Planet Baha'i, but I have not posted it yet because I think some Baha'is might be offended... You know me, I speak rather bluntly and honestly.
Stay tuned for the new thread I am about to post which will be entitled:
Coronavirus: Do religious people have their heads in the sand?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Because of your comment, I went back and tried to read it. I gave up. But, I recognized the author. David Langness is a Baha'i I heard speak before. But, there's some problems. An article in which he was one of the main writers called "A Modest Proposal" got the Baha'i leaders all pissed off. Here's some excerpts...
(T)here is clear and compelling evidence that the fortunes of the United States Baha'i community have stagnated...
Declarations have slowed to a maintenance pace. In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level, which is approximately what it takes to replace attrition to withdrawals, pioneering, deaths, etc.
Youth declarations have dropped even more precipitously as we have been unable to sustain the influx of youth and young adults at levels comparable to the 1969-1973 period, when unprecedented numbers of youth enrolled in the Faith. Consequently the total of 19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987.
Declarations have slowed to a maintenance pace. In the 1960s and early '70s,10,000 declarations a year, many among young people, were not unusual. Since 1974, enrollments have hovered around the 3,000 per year level, which is approximately what it takes to replace attrition to withdrawals, pioneering, deaths, etc.
Youth declarations have dropped even more precipitously as we have been unable to sustain the influx of youth and young adults at levels comparable to the 1969-1973 period, when unprecedented numbers of youth enrolled in the Faith. Consequently the total of 19,000 Baha'i youth in the American Baha'i community in the peak year (1971) has declined to a total of 2,800 in 1987.
From a letter by Steven Scroll to the Baha'i Universal House of Justice in 1996.
Over the last few weeks Baha'is around the world have been informed about the removal of David Langness' Baha'i rights, the denunciation of David by Firuz Kazemzadeh and Stephen Birkland from the floor of the US National Convention, and of the withdrawal of his Baha'i membership by Prof. Juan Cole. As a friend and colleague of both of these loyal lovers of Baha'u'llah, I am devastated by these sad events I can not in good conscience remain silent in the face of such injustice.
From the "Talisman Crackdown"
David Langness was contacted by the National Spiritual Assembly(NSA)concerning an email he had written to Talisman about the Dialogue episode. He had been the main author of A Modest Proposal and gave vent to the secretive way Baha'i jurisprudence is handled. This post also made the statement that the Universal House of Justice had not approved of the NSAs action in the Dialogue case. The NSA called the statement a lie and insisted that he publicly apologize and retract the statement. (There seems to have been considerable difference between public and private statements on this issue, and I personally believe it to be a matter of confusion rather than dishonesty.)Langness posted a reluctant retraction but it was deemed unsatisfactory by the NSA. He was penalized by the loss of his "administrative rights". This meant that he could not vote, or be elected to a Baha'i institution, or participate in any even that was limited to Baha'is in good standing.
Anyway the article went on to give recommendations on how be fix the problems. It all blew up in their faces. The Baha'i leadership put a stop on the Dialogue magazine and many of the Baha'is involved with the magazine quit the Baha'i Faith. I don't know if you care, but just in case I thought I'd give some of the background about the problems that the Baha'i Faith is having. It is important to me, because, as you can see from the Baha'is posting here, they are supposed to have God's answers to fix the world. But can they?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Yeah, I just posted some dirt from those times. I knew of David Langness and heard him speak. And I met Steven Scroll the editor of "Dialouge" magazine. If you haven't read the "Modest Proposal" I think you should. You'll see what they said that got them in trouble. And I understand that the administrative Baha'is can't let just any Baha'i say and print stuff about the Baha'i Faith, but were they being too restrictive?
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I have not read If you haven't read the "Modest Proposal." I just found it online so I will read it as soon as I have time... I see it was written in1987. Has it been that long that the American Baha'i community has been in trouble? Maybe I am not wrong about the heads in the sand after all.
David Langness writes and edits for BahaiTeachings.org and is a journalist and literary critic for Paste Magazine. He and his wife Teresa live in the Sierra foothills in Northern California.
David Langness, author at BahaiTeachings.org
I get those articles every day in my e-mail. If the Baha'i administration has a problem with those articles, I sure don't know why.. At least someone is doing something to teach the Faith and they do a very good job.